Better jab: Cotto or Mayweather???

[Silky-Flow]

But Marquez was a stationary target with very little head movement against Floyd.

And as effective as Cotto was with his jab Pac walked right through it.

Yes JMM is stationay but did that stop him from landing on Pac in both fights? so just imagine what a man like Floyd who jabs and moves around the ring can do? Pac may have been able to walk through Cotto's jab but that was more to do with Cotto losing his discipline imo, if Mayweather is landing his jab he'll work off that and frustrate Pac i believe, then when Pac lunges in (and he always does) a sharp counter will most likely be waiting for him, i simply can't see Manny winning a jabbing contest with Floyd, especially when you consider Floyd's reach and height advantage.

[dibzvincent143]

I like to believe that he will be bothered a lot more by Mayweather's jab than he was from Cotto's jab because I believe that it will be more harder for him to adjust to floyd's jab's and positioning

mayweather can hit pac as many times as he want!lol
3 jabs = 1 jab of pac.LMAO

[Beater_of_ass]

If we went by the ideology "that they haven't fought yet" we might as well throw this whole thread out of the window because everyone is makingassumptions regarding floyd's jab vs Cotto's

While Cotto snapped Pac's head a few times, it didn't affect him much because it was too slow and Pac started to get around it with no problems. It was certainly not holding Pac back.
Now what I'm saying is that, we all know how precisely and often Mayweather throws his fast jab which creates problems for every fighter he fought until now. He will throw a jab to keep you off distance and move out. I call that being affective and throwing a fighter's offensive plan out of the window.

So now try and make sense of this: Cotto's jabs snap their opponent's heads back and might have KO power but they're easy to get around of(for Pac at least)
Floyd's jabs are very hard to get around of because they're very often thrown and very accurate and fast. Up to today he has given every fighter he has fought problems with his jab(keeping them off him and stuff, setting them up for a counterpunch etc..)

Do you still think a strong Jab will give Pac problems? or a more faster, consistent, accurate jab which can set him up for straight rights all night?

I like to believe that he will be bothered a lot more by Mayweather's jab than he was from Cotto's jab because I believe that it will be more harder for him to adjust to floyd's jab's and positioning

See you're doing it again though. You're saying Cotto's jab has done nothing while Floyds has done everything for him. Is it because Floyd is undefeated or because he simply fights more defensively. Cotto's jab is the reason he beat Judah and Mosley, period. Again its not because its slower/stronger they use it for completely different tactical advantages. Cotto uses it to offset movement of the opponent and disrupt their timing. He tried this against Marg, btut he was able to walk through it. Mayweather uses it to set up different punches, his opponents keep walking him down and he pops the jab to keep them at bay and when they start thinking jab Mayweather throws the right. They are opposites from the outset, so obviously the best assumption we can use is how it worked on their opponents, of which, they don't have many in common.

You also mention that every fighter has had a problem with Mayweathers jab. Thats very true, but its the same for Cotto sans Margarito and only to an extent Pacman, and both for very different reasons. Margarito simply kept coming forward and Manny was being tagged with it early, and until the knockdown it worked perfect, after that Cotto abandoned it. The problem I see for Mayweather is that his jab is too weak to keep Manny from being hurt by it (which is true for every Mayweather opponent) but what makes it worse is Manny may be too fast for even Mayweathers jab and he was too fast for Cotto's. As we say in the first few rounds of the Manny fight, Cottos jab was doing as it always had and did against Judah/Mosley. It kept him from being able to use his in/out movement and limited what speed advantage he did have. In the second we say Cotto almost abandon it and it was a round Manny clearly won.

However, in the third and fourth rounds aside from the knockdowns Manny wasn't all that impressive because again Cotto was working behind his jab and it was the POWER of the jab that kept Manny from doing what he did the rest of the fight. So again, its difficult to compare them for the simple reason that they are used in completely different tactical situations.

[Silky-Flow]

Are you serious? Obviously the jab is stronger than Mayweathers because he is left handed and fights orthodox stop making it out to be like we are hating Mayweather. He has the weaker jab, period. In fact, I'm not sure if anything Mayweather throws is as hard as Cotto's jab to be quite honest. Yea, Mayweather had a good jab against Marquez but lets be real, when a guy moves up two weight classes, is forced to completely learn the opposite style of fight from what he's done his entire career, and doesn't have the great defense even when he fights defensively a jab is going to look perfect. I'm far more impressed with Cotto's jab against Paq than I ever was about ANYTHING Mayweather did to Marquez. That was like putting in a dairy cow in with a Matador it was apparent what was going to happen.

Well clearly you wasn't gonna be impressed with Floyd no matter what he did because you can't see past the weight issue , the bottom line is Floyd's jab was MUCH FASTER than Cotto's ever was against Pac and that can make all the difference, if Floyd stops Pac's rhythm with his so called "weak jab" then that's half the job done, and if he follows the jab with a big straight right that could settle the argument altogether, no-ones saying Floyd is gonna knock Pac out with his jab, all i'm saying is a jab with speed is much more harder to deal with.

[Pecs]

cotto got a more powerful jab

pbf got a quicker and more precise jab...

[shadeyfizzle]

Yes JMM is stationay but did that stop him from landing on Pac in both fights? so just imagine what a man like Floyd who jabs and moves around the ring can do? Pac may have been able to walk through Cotto's jab but that was more to do with Cotto losing his discipline imo, if Mayweather is landing his jab he'll work off that and frustrate Pac i believe, then when Pac lunges in (and he always does) a sharp counter will most likely be waiting for him, i simply can't see Manny winning a jabbing contest with Floyd, especially when you consider Floyd's reach and height advantage.

Marquez fought 2 completely different styles against Floyd and Pac so that argument is pretty moot.

I do believe however that If Pacquiao were to be frustrated against Mayweather it wouldnt be just from floyd's jabs landing. It would be from Mayweather being able to land the jab at different rates. Kinda like a pitcher throwing a few fastballs to set up the curveball.

[Albo Da Kid]

See you're doing it again though. You're saying Cotto's jab has done nothing while Floyds has done everything for him. Is it because Floyd is undefeated or because he simply fights more defensively. Cotto's jab is the reason he beat Judah and Mosley, period. Again its not because its slower/stronger they use it for completely different tactical advantages. Cotto uses it to offset movement of the opponent and disrupt their timing. He tried this against Marg, btut he was able to walk through it. Mayweather uses it to set up different punches, his opponents keep walking him down and he pops the jab to keep them at bay and when they start thinking jab Mayweather throws the right. They are opposites from the outset, so obviously the best assumption we can use is how it worked on their opponents, of which, they don't have many in common.

You also mention that every fighter has had a problem with Mayweathers jab. Thats very true, but its the same for Cotto sans Margarito and only to an extent Pacman, and both for very different reasons. Margarito simply kept coming forward and Manny was being tagged with it early, and until the knockdown it worked perfect, after that Cotto abandoned it. The problem I see for Mayweather is that his jab is too weak to keep Manny from being hurt by it (which is true for every Mayweather opponent) but what makes it worse is Manny may be too fast for even Mayweathers jab and he was too fast for Cotto's. As we say in the first few rounds of the Manny fight, Cottos jab was doing as it always had and did against Judah/Mosley. It kept him from being able to use his in/out movement and limited what speed advantage he did have. In the second we say Cotto almost abandon it and it was a round Manny clearly won.

However, in the third and fourth rounds aside from the knockdowns Manny wasn't all that impressive because again Cotto was working behind his jab and it was the POWER of the jab that kept Manny from doing what he did the rest of the fight. So again, its difficult to compare them for the simple reason that they are used in completely different tactical situations.

Man...I think we're getting the wrong images in our minds here.. You said that Manny might be fast enough for Floyd's jab to get around it, and I like to believe that as well, but one thing that we know for sure is that Manny's kryptonite are counter pounchers. We can make that judgment just by seeing him against JMM.
We just wintessed that power is not a problem for Manny and counter-punching is. We also know that Floyd is one sun of a gun when it comes to counterpunching and most of the time he will set up his traps by using the jab like you said and keeping his opponent at bay. He can even use his quick jab to score on his opponents, since he can't hurt them with it. I still think Floyd's jab can be more of a threat than Cotto's jab or any other fighter's stiff jab, to Pac

Lets also Imagine a fight with Clottey vs Mayweather. We clearly saw that Cotto's jab didn not have an affect at all on Clottey. Clottey blocked all the face shots. Cotto's jab never worked for his advantage. His best weapon were the body shots and left hooks or when he exploded with left+right hooks in the corner.
He never used it to rack up points nor ever hurted clottey with the jab. Whenever Clottey wanted to land, he would explode and not think twice about Cotto's threat of a jab.
Now imagine what fighter like Mayweather would done to use his jab to his advantage. He would have scored on clottey with his jab all night and set him up for counter rights.

I know that I'm making assumptions here, but I'm looking at it logically. A fast, accurate, consistent jab >>>(bigger threat/affect)>>> Strong, stiff, slow jab

[PAKYO]

3 x 10 jabs from floyd will make Pac laugh so hard he'll think floyd must be joking.

1 jab from Pac will make floyd sleep and when he wakes up he'll regret why he did not run all night.

Floyd is also not a complete fighter, that's delusional! How can someone be complete if FLOYD'S GOT NO BALLS!

[Beater_of_ass]

Well clearly you wasn't gonna be impressed with Floyd no matter what he did because you can't see past the weight issue , the bottom line is Floyd's jab was MUCH FASTER than Cotto's ever was against Pac and that can make all the difference, if Floyd stops Pac's rhythm with his so called "weak jab" then that's half the job done, and if he follows the jab with a big straight right that could settle the argument altogether, no-ones saying Floyd is gonna knock Pac out with his jab, all i'm saying is a jab with speed is much more harder to deal with.

Ugh, Floyd nuthuggers are nearly impossible to deal with. I didn't bring up the weight as a reason as to why Floyd's jab was unimpressive though its apparent you took it that way as anytime someone says they aren't impressed with something Floyd does its looked at as something HE does wrong. The weight is an issue in the movement of Marquez. If the guy is moving up two divisions and putting on about 12 pounds of muscle he's going to be slower, and in Marquez case, A LOT slower. As for the speed of the jab, read my post again. It has nothing to do with whose is even faster or stronger its the fact that they are used for completely polar opposite reasons, I'm not even saying Cotto's is better than Mayweathers but again people of your ilk ALWAYS take it that way, so let me put it as simple as I can.

Floyd uses it to set up his counter punches and what little offensive he does. Cotto uses it to keep himself from counters (as he uses it to end some of his combo's) and he also uses it to keep his opponents from throwing combination's. Its also safe to say that the power makes the opponent think twice before coming in too quickly, however, as is the case with 99% of fighters if a guy can walk through your jab, if being used to keep them from overpowering you, it will fail miserably. (Cotto/Marg Malignaggi/Cotto) In the case of Manny/Floyd I see it being a combo of both, Manny walking through it and Manny slipping it/throwing punches over it because he's so fast.

[Beater_of_ass]

Man...I think we're getting the wrong images in our minds here.. You said that Manny might be fast enough for Floyd's jab to get around it, and I like to believe that as well, but one thing that we know for sure is that Manny's kryptonite are counter pounchers. We can make that judgment just by seeing him against JMM.
We just wintessed that power is not a problem for Manny and counter-punching is. We also know that Floyd is one sun of a gun when it comes to counterpunching and most of the time he will set up his traps by using the jab like you said and keeping his opponent at bay. He can even use his quick jab to score on his opponents, since he can't hurt them with it. I still think Floyd's jab can be more of a threat than Cotto's jab or any other fighter's stiff jab, to Pac

Lets also Imagine a fight with Clottey vs Mayweather. We clearly saw that Cotto's jab didn not have an affect at all on Clottey. Clottey blocked all the face shots. Cotto's jab never worked for his advantage. His best weapon were the body shots and left hooks.
He never used it to rack up points nor ever hurted clottey with the jab. Whenever Clottey wanted to land, he would explode and not think twice about Cotto's threat of a jab.
Now imagine what fighter like Mayweather would done to use his jab to his advantage. He would have scored on clottey with his jab all night and set him up for counter rights.

I know that I'm making assumptions here, but I'm looking at it logically. A fast, accurate, consistent jab >>>(bigger threat/affect)>>> Strong, stiff, slow jab

And I can prove you wrong on so many levels with that. It just depends on who the opponent is and how the jab is used. Its safe to say that the jab wasn't much of a weapon in Floyds fight with Castillo, the first one. Cotto used his jab quite a bit against Margarito and he walked through it and that was consistent, powerful AND accurate. Hell, we can bring up Malignaggi vs Cotto and that argument is thrown out the window again. Also I'm not saying Cotto's IS in fact better than Mayweather's, its the entire reason I keep bringing up how its used tactically and against the type of fighter its used on.

Clottey has a granite chin, as did Margarito and it was apparent Cotto's jab didn't do jack to either of them. But against Mosley whose chin is just as strong as either guys, and even Judah who didn't have a KO loss until the Cotto fight it worked wonders on both of the those guys. Mayweather hasn't fought nearly the competition that Cotto has ESPECIALLY in the WW division and I fail to see in ANY situation where Mayweathers would have been more affective against Margarito, Clottey or even Mosley. The countering/movement/defense may very well have lead Mayweather to a victory, but I don't see him jab being more effective than Cotto's on Mosley and certainly not do better against Marg or Clottey. It all comes back to styles make fights which is why I compared the jabs to fighters both men have fought and Cotto's jab against Judah was more effective than Mayweathers. Does that make it better overall, I don't know, but comparing opponent to opponent in that sole situation it was.