Better jab: Cotto or Mayweather???

[Albo Da Kid]

And I can prove you wrong on so many levels with that. It just depends on who the opponent is and how the jab is used. Its safe to say that the jab wasn't much of a weapon in Floyds fight with Castillo, the first one. Cotto used his jab quite a bit against Margarito and he walked through it and that was consistent, powerful AND accurate. Hell, we can bring up Malignaggi vs Cotto and that argument is thrown out the window again. Also I'm not saying Cotto's IS in fact better than Mayweather's, its the entire reason I keep bringing up how its used tactically and against the type of fighter its used on.

Clottey has a granite chin, as did Margarito and it was apparent Cotto's jab didn't do jack to either of them. But against Mosley whose chin is just as strong as either guys, and even Judah who didn't have a KO loss until the Cotto fight it worked wonders on both of the those guys. Mayweather hasn't fought nearly the competition that Cotto has ESPECIALLY in the WW division and I fail to see in ANY situation where Mayweathers would have been more affective against Margarito, Clottey or even Mosley. The countering/movement/defense may very well have lead Mayweather to a victory, but I don't see him jab being more effective than Cotto's on Mosley and certainly not do better against Marg or Clottey. It all comes back to styles make fights which is why I compared the jabs to fighters both men have fought and Cotto's jab against Judah was more effective than Mayweathers. Does that make it better overall, I don't know, but comparing opponent to opponent in that sole situation it was.

You make a good point when comparing their jabs to Judah . I guess Cotto did affect Judah with his jab usage more than Mayweather did.. But at the same time I think that Judah that fought Cotto wasn't the same slick Judah who fought Mayweather. And from what I remember Mayweather was using other effective techniques like lounging and pocket counter-punching rather than his jab. I don't know if the jab wasn't working or if he thought these other techniques worked better than jabbing.

All i know though is that Mayweather can use his jab a lot better than Cotto can. Mayweather can be more effective with it if he uses it right or better yet if he decides to use it to his advantage. The thing about Mayweather is that he's so advanced that he has discovered other ways of being effective and better his counter-punching, and the jab usage is probably his last resort.
If he does use his jab though, believe me Mayweather can be a problem.

I still think logically Mayweather gives Pac more problems by jabbing and right countering than Cotto gave him. The fact that Pac has bigger problems with counter-punchers than power hitters adds to that opinion. I guess it goes down to personal preference and beliefs.

[Silky-Flow]

Ugh, Floyd nuthuggers are nearly impossible to deal with. I didn't bring up the weight as a reason as to why Floyd's jab was unimpressive though its apparent you took it that way as anytime someone says they aren't impressed with something Floyd does its looked at as something HE does wrong. The weight is an issue in the movement of Marquez. If the guy is moving up two divisions and putting on about 12 pounds of muscle he's going to be slower, and in Marquez case, A LOT slower. As for the speed of the jab, read my post again. It has nothing to do with whose is even faster or stronger its the fact that they are used for completely polar opposite reasons, I'm not even saying Cotto's is better than Mayweathers but again people of your ilk ALWAYS take it that way, so let me put it as simple as I can.

Floyd uses it to set up his counter punches and what little offensive he does. Cotto uses it to keep himself from counters (as he uses it to end some of his combo's) and he also uses it to keep his opponents from throwing combination's. Its also safe to say that the power makes the opponent think twice before coming in too quickly, however, as is the case with 99% of fighters if a guy can walk through your jab, if being used to keep them from overpowering you, it will fail miserably. (Cotto/Marg Malignaggi/Cotto) In the case of Manny/Floyd I see it being a combo of both, Manny walking through it and Manny slipping it/throwing punches over it because he's so fast.

Ugh, people who can't have a simple debate without coming out with tedious, played out lines like "Floyd nuthugger" are getting very tiresome , yes Floyd and Miguel's jabs are different I GET IT that's why i already explained that Cotto's jab is with his STRONGER HAND which is why it's more powerful, the difference is he hasn't got a straight right lurking like Floyd so the jab isn't as important to Floyd as it is to Cotto, and you talk about what would happen against Pac but somehow fail to mention Floyd's height and reach advantage? if Floyd isn't in range then "slipping it and throwing punches over it" is gonna be one hell of a task for little Manny, i don't believe he can get inside without taking shots. Hatton had a little success early getting inside against Floyd by being physical but Manny isn't a physical boxer.

[shadeyfizzle]

Ugh, people who can't have a simple debate without coming out with tedious, played out lines like "Floyd nuthugger" are getting very tiresome , yes Floyd and Miguel's jabs are different I GET IT that's why i already explained that Cotto's jab is with his STRONGER HAND which is why it's more powerful, the difference is he hasn't got a straight right lurking like Floyd so the jab isn't as important to Floyd as it is to Cotto, and you talk about what would happen against Pac but somehow fail to mention Floyd's height and reach advantage? if Floyd isn't in range then "slipping it and throwing punches over it" is gonna be one hell of a task for little Manny, i don't believe he can get inside without taking shots. Hatton had a little success early getting inside against Floyd by being physical but Manny isn't a physical boxer.

Not so sure about that. Pac was surprisingly able to muscle Hatton and Cotto in clinches.

[Albo Da Kid]

Yo Beater_of_ass I'm off to sleep for tonight and I just wanted to let you know that It was pleasant discussing this topic with you. Props to you for not loosing your patience and resorting to insults and flaming like 90% of the immature *******s around here.

Lookin forward to discussing **** with you in the future as well. Green K for making a great debate and bringing up some great points in your discussion.

Goodnight man.

[Beater_of_ass]

You make a good point when comparing their jabs to Judah . I guess Cotto did affect Judah with his jab usage more than Mayweather did.. But at the same time I think that Judah that fought Cotto wasn't the same slick Judah who fought Mayweather. And from what I remember Mayweather was using other effective techniques like lounging and pocket counter-punching rather than his jab. I don't know if the jab wasn't working or if he thought these other techniques worked better than jabbing.

All i know though is that Mayweather can use his jab a lot better than Cotto can. Mayweather can be more effective with it if he uses it right or better yet if he decides to use it to his advantage. The thing about Mayweather is that he's so advanced that he has discovered other ways of being effective and better his counter-punching, and the jab usage is probably his last resort.
If he does use his jab though, believe me Mayweather can be a problem.

I still think logically Mayweather gives Pac more problems by jabbing and right countering than Cotto gave him. The fact that Pac has bigger problems with counter-punchers than power hitters adds to that opinion. I guess it goes down to personal preference and beliefs.

Yea I went to bed right when you posted this but I was too tired to make sense in my reply. While I do agree that Manny will have more of a problem with Mayweather because of his style and skill as a counter puncher, I'm not so sure the jab will be more effective than Cotto's was, at least early on in the fight. What I mean by that is how much pressure Manny will apply to Mayweather, I don't think the jab will be the weapon that will keep Manny off of Mayweather its going to be the right hand. I'm sure he can set up his right with the jab, but it'll be used more to blind Manny than anything else. I also feel if Mayweather uses it too much Manny's right hook is every bit as good as his left now so he can't throw that jab constantly or it will start being timed.

And while I do think Manny has bigger problems against counter punchers than a strong pressure fighter, the only proof of this is Marquez and Manny has increased tenfold since then. I firmly believe if you put this version of Manny in with Marquez we're looking at a KO within 8 rounds, if he even makes it out of the first. That was a very one dimensional and stationary Manny that fought both Marquez's the modern won has far better in-out movement, far better defense and has become a solid counterpuncher himself. The KO or Hatton and the 2nd Cotto knockdown were both great counter shots, in fact, the knockdown in the second Marquez fight was also a counter punch. That being said, I'm still not sure who wins between Manny/Mayweather, I need more time to really study both fighters before I make that call. I have 2 of Manny's fights, and 2 of Mayweathers on DVR but I'm gonna have to dig up some more online and to make a final decision. I'll also wait till at least the fight is official announced before I start digging up videos.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Mayweather got the jab going due to Floyd Sr. Mayweather's jab was really good at 130, then all of a sudden he stopped. I gotta say Mayweather, Mayweather's jab is quicker and more accurate. Cotto's jab has more pop but the jab isn't used to hurt anyone. It's used to score and keep the opponent at a distance.

[IMDAZED]

Mayweather's jab is rivaled only by the Klitschko's.

[Pugilistic™]

Cotto has the stronger jab and he uses it more than Floyd.

Mayweathers jab is faster and more accurate. Mayweathers jab is a underated weapon in his arsenal.

[djsygo]

Floyd jab is the more unpredictable. Now its to the body, now its feint the body and go for the head, now looks like a jab but he left hooks from the jab, setting up the opening because you try parry the jab and get hit from the left hook. Then, when you are there thinking about what will come next, he hits you with his straight right.

The jab mayweather uses is multi dimensional and totally unpredictable, while Cotto hase a powerful jab but its always the same, and can be avoided with foot speed.

[sippiguy]

they are different.

Cotto's is stronger, since he is a converted southpaw and all. He has KD power in that jab.

Mayweather's is faster by miles... and thus opponents don't see it coming. Or if they do, they don't have enough time to block/evade it.

From a tactical standpoint, I would pick Mayweather's. From a brute force and power aspect, I would pick Cotto.

Great point, I see it the same way.