toney doing what roy jones did

[BadMagick]

...

Not at all. Toney will go down as a great that isn't remembered. He isn't known now, why the hell would he be ten years from now? (Not known comparitively to Jones. Ask someone who James Toney is, then Roy Jones, more people know Jones) Not to mention it will ALWAYS come back to this: Roy beat Toney in their "primes."

[Super_Lightweight]

lol

Why isn't there such a big deal being made about Toney? would he be one of the P4P greats if he beat Ruiz? Judging by what (comparitively) little hype there is about this fight, even if Ruiz got knocked out, I don't think Toney would get as much respect as Jones did when he beat Ruiz.

1) Toney is naturally bigger.

2) Toney is not better than Jones.

3) Toney has himself to blame for his less-than-realized career.

4) Toney lost to Jones, Griffin twice, and an unknown fighter named Thadzi.

5) Jones will not be remembered for going out on his back (as someone said). People just say that now because they are a hater, or because it just happened recently. Right after Ali was getting waxed by guys that's what the sports world was talking about, how old and sad he was.

6) Toney STILL has to BEAT Ruiz, and that hasn't happened yet. If he doesn't come in shape he will lose.

7) Toney goes into the hall of fame, because he is a very good fighter...just won't go down as great as Jones bu few will.

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

P4p

I don't understand all thsi P4P cr*p???... According to a lot of boxing site's like **********.net, Toney is P4P No.13 or something?

How?.... He's a heavyweight that doesn't hold a belt... and is fighting Ruiz in his next fight, So surely the true Heavyweight Champion of the World Vitali should be rated above him?

Toney IS a heavyweight... He's fought his last few fights at heavyweight. I hear stuff like, "it's not that he beat Holyfield, but the way that he beat Holyfield!"...

To be honest with you, I think that's a load of cr*p!... Holyfield had lost something like 6 of his last 8 fights going into that one... And if he'd have been in the ring with Vitali that night - We'd have seen him get beaten FAR more convincinly!

I think it's an American thing?... And he's American?

[Super_Lightweight]

lol

It has nothing to do with being American dude. There just doesn't happen to be a European example of someone who SHOULD be in a lower weight-class but makes the choice to fight at heavyweight. The only top 10 or near top 10 heavyweights there are that do that are yrd and Toney, who happen to be American.

Pound-4-pound isn't that hard to understand. It just means who has the better skills, POUND FOR POUND. It's not about who would win if they fought each other, it's about who is better or who would win if they were the SAME WEIGHT.

Toney should be at cruiserweight or lightheavyweight, but he made the choice to move up and add muscle that he did not have naturally. Vitali Klitschko, if he was the same size as Toney, most people think Toney would own him, which makes him better p4p.

However, in reality, if they fought Klitschko is way bigger and longer and I think he'd destroy Toney. That's because Klitschko is bigger, no because he is the POUND 4 POUND better fighter.

If you don't understand p4p now, you never will.

[dodge]

We will see what Toney has left in him. Then we can say who had the better career.

[dodge]

Right now if they were both to retire, I would say Jones had the better career.

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

Yeah, I hear what you're saying Light welterweight.

But I diss like the whole P4P thing because it's so heavily biased towards Americans.

As I understand: P4P is surposed to be THEE best fighter in the World RIGHT NOW if WEIGHT wasn't a factor.

Well There is no way in the World that a 40yr old Hopkins would be able to keep away from a 26yr old Pacquiao at the same weight!

I understand that he defended the IBF belt 20 times against Robert Allen and soem welterweights... But if you compare the competition that he's been in the ring with over the last 7yrs against the competition that, say Erik Morales has... It's just a different class of fighter.

But back to James Toney... He fights at Heavyweight, he has done for his last 3 fights, and his next fight is scheduled at heavyweight. He's a heavyweight now, That's up to him if he doesn't have the discipline to get back down to Cruiserweight.

If he want's to play with the big boy's he should have forced his mandatory with Vitali for the WBC but he didn't.

I'm gonna sound like a massive "American fighter hater" now but here goes...

Mayweather will just run for 12 rounds and win a UD!. I've said before that Mayweather is starting to turn into another American so called "P4P" fighter. He'll beat Gatti, (the weakest champion). And then move on up to Welterweight successfully avoiding all the dangerous fighters i.e. Tszyu/Hatton/Harris/Cotto/Witter... etc. He'll then fight an ageing De la Hoya, or a shot Mosley, again - run for 12 rounds too a UD decsion and settle with his place secured in the all time "American" P4P books... Bollox!... LOL!... He will however get caught out later on in his career and knocked out like Roy.

When Morales steps in the ring... HE COMES TO FIGHT!... Not like Bernard did against Eastman recently - or most of his other fights.

They're prize fighters!.... And should conduct themselves in the ring that way... LOL!...

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

But I diss like the whole P4P thing because it's so heavily biased towards Americans.

That's not true at all. Bernard Hopkins already faced a better version of Pacman at this weight...Tito...and look what happened. The simple fact is, there are no fighters from any country outside of the U.S. that would beat Bernard in the last 10 years. Name a fighter who has better comp than Bernard or would beat Bernard. If it was true, someone would have beaten him by now. Eastman was a UK guy, and he got owned when Beranrd finally decided to stand and deliver. Eastman could not hurt Hops enough or close the gap and he is probably the best UK middleweight.

Morales is a very good p4p fighter but he comes up short sometmes. VS MAB he came and lost. VS Pac he fought a guy that should have stayed at featherweight and that used to fight at 110!

But back to James Toney... He fights at Heavyweight, he has done for his last 3 fights, and his next fight is scheduled at heavyweight. He's a heavyweight now, That's up to him if he doesn't have the discipline to get back down to Cruiserweight.

Again, Toney DECIDED to move to heavyweight to get more money but there is also more risk at heavyweight. Toney has been hurt and inactive but based on his wins vs bigger opponents (Jirov) and the fact that he is about to face Ruiz, he is serious. It doesn't matter what weight-class he is in. He was not BORN for heavyweight lke Vitali, he MOVED there, dude. He CHOSE to go for the bigger guys and he could be a champ April 30 (debateable). Toney is not a legit heavyweight and therefore depending on his continued success at that weight-class he gets more props than a natural heavyweight, regardless of whether you think he is just too lazy to fight at a lower class or not. Toney is not a top 10 p4p fighter but he COULD be considered that after Ruiz. We will see, but there should be no surprise and dsmay from you just because someone ransk hm at 13, not even cracking the top 10.

Mayweather will just run for 12 rounds and win a UD!. I've said before that Mayweather is starting to turn into another American so called "P4P" fighter. He'll beat Gatti, (the weakest champion). And then move on up to Welterweight successfully avoiding all the dangerous fighters i.e. Tszyu/Hatton/Harris/Cotto/Witter... etc. He'll then fight an ageing De la Hoya, or a shot Mosley, again - run for 12 rounds too a UD decsion and settle with his place secured in the all time "American" P4P books... Bollox!... LOL!... He will however get caught out later on in his career and knocked out like Roy.

Mayweather has fought MANY good fighters and has OWNED them. If he gets KO'd by DLH or Mosley, so what? Those guys are bigger and way stronger and would favored to win anyway? If DLH or Mosley look like **** if Floyd fights them, ten Floyd will not get a whole lot of credit. Mayweather has not been running lately, and usually stands there and trades and knows how to use defense. Apparently a fighter has to get hit for him to be on your P4p list. Mayweather has been calling out Zoo and they WILL fight if Zoo wants it...trust that. There is no evidence whatsoever that Floyd avoids fighters, and if he gets caught when he is old like Roy did, it DOESN'T MATTER. They are OLD when that happens, that's the whole point. It has no affect on their legacy except to the people who never liked tem in the 1st place.

You seriously need to look at Floyd's resume since you think you have evidence that he has avoided good fighters. Gatti may not be the best fighter but he has skills, and is much bigger than Floyd. What are you goin to say if Floyd trades with Gatti and smokes his ass or if he gets KO'd? Either wow Floyd is great or wow Gatti is better than I thought.

Notable fightes Floyd has fought: DeMarcus Corley, Jose Luis Castillo, Diego Corrales, Jesus Chavez, Angel Manfredy, Genaro Hernandez (retired by Mayweather), Emanuel Augustus, Famoso Hernandez. Sosa and N'dou were also good fighters whose careers were all but ruined by Mayweather (especially N'dou).

[MlLkMan]

We will see what Toney has left in him. Then we can say who had the better career.

________________________________________

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

That's not true at all. Bernard Hopkins already faced a better version of Pacman at this weight...Tito...and look what happened. The simple fact is, there are no fighters from any country outside of the U.S. that would beat Bernard in the last 10 years. Name a fighter who has better comp than Bernard or would beat Bernard. If it was true, someone would have beaten him by now. Eastman was a UK guy, and he got owned when Beranrd finally decided to stand and deliver. Eastman could not hurt Hops enough or close the gap and he is probably the best UK middleweight.

Morales is a very good p4p fighter but he comes up short sometmes. VS MAB he came and lost. VS Pac he fought a guy that should have stayed at featherweight and that used to fight at 110!

That's why Hopkins has 20 defences... Because he kept well away from the "middleweight tournement" Don King held in the mid 90's and stayed in the back rooms defending against Robert Allen and some of the others he "picked". - He only got big when he beat Tito, and then kept saying, "Why do all those guy's eat like models??? Floyd, Tszyu, Mosley, De La Hoya, etc - Because they're afraid to step up and fight a middleweight?"... That to me sounds like a guy calling out the little guy's!

Again, Toney DECIDED to move to heavyweight to get more money but there is also more risk at heavyweight. Toney has been hurt and inactive but based on his wins vs bigger opponents (Jirov) and the fact that he is about to face Ruiz, he is serious. It doesn't matter what weight-class he is in. He was not BORN for heavyweight lke Vitali, he MOVED there, dude. He CHOSE to go for the bigger guys and he could be a champ April 30 (debateable). Toney is not a legit heavyweight and therefore depending on his continued success at that weight-class he gets more props than a natural heavyweight, regardless of whether you think he is just too lazy to fight at a lower class or not. Toney is not a top 10 p4p fighter but he COULD be considered that after Ruiz. We will see, but there should be no surprise and dsmay from you just because someone ransk hm at 13, not even cracking the top 10.

If Toney beats Ruiz he becomes a top 10 P4P???...(Ruiz is FAR.... From being the bst heavyweight out there!!!) Yet Calzaghe has dominated a division since 1997' and is 38-0 (33KO's) but still not considered top 20 P4P??? - And don't go on about Ottke... If you've watched hs fights you'll know what a farse that was!

Mayweather has fought MANY good fighters and has OWNED them. If he gets KO'd by DLH or Mosley, so what? Those guys are bigger and way stronger and would favored to win anyway? If DLH or Mosley look like **** if Floyd fights them, ten Floyd will not get a whole lot of credit. Mayweather has not been running lately, and usually stands there and trades and knows how to use defense. Apparently a fighter has to get hit for him to be on your P4p list. Mayweather has been calling out Zoo and they WILL fight if Zoo wants it...trust that. There is no evidence whatsoever that Floyd avoids fighters, and if he gets caught when he is old like Roy did, it DOESN'T MATTER. They are OLD when that happens, that's the whole point. It has no affect on their legacy except to the people who never liked tem in the 1st place.

You seriously need to look at Floyd's resume since you think you have evidence that he has avoided good fighters. Gatti may not be the best fighter but he has skills, and is much bigger than Floyd. What are you goin to say if Floyd trades with Gatti and smokes his ass or if he gets KO'd? Either wow Floyd is great or wow Gatti is better than I thought.

Notable fightes Floyd has fought: DeMarcus Corley, Jose Luis Castillo, Diego Corrales, Jesus Chavez, Angel Manfredy, Genaro Hernandez (retired by Mayweather), Emanuel Augustus, Famoso Hernandez. Sosa and N'dou were also good fighters whose careers were all but ruined by Mayweather (especially N'dou).

Yeah... I was a bit hard on Mayweather! ... He has beaten some TOP fighters... And I do think he's fighting in a weight class to high for him! (So at a diss-advantage).. But then again that's up to him.