The Top 25 Light Heavyweights of All-Time – 11 to 25

[Classic Rock]

When I scrolled down and saw RJJ at 12, I just exited the page....

Michalschewski shouldn't be so far behing RJJ. Not much separates their LHW resumées.

[Dave Rado]

When I scrolled down and saw RJJ at 12, I just exited the page....

Shows how lazy you are then. If you had bothered to read the criteria you would have realised that it makes perfect sense (unless you're also completely ignorant about boxing history).

[Classic Rock]

Shows how lazy you are then. If you had bothered to read the criteria you would have realised that it makes perfect sense (unless you're also completely ignorant about boxing history).

Which just might be the case...

[JAB5239]

Please, tell me how he doesn't make the top 10?

Please, tell me how he does? You choose to throw his name out there without even trying to back it up. Lets hears some reasons and I'll be happy to debate you.

[crold1]

Mind you, the lists that Cliff post are calculated algorithmically using the rules he laid out in the article - so it won't be the same as the list Cliff would have posted if it had been his personal ATG list. For one thing a personal list would generally give more weight to how you subjectively evaluate a fighter's quality as a fighter. For another, a personal list would generally give more weight to how you subjectively evaluate the quality of a fighter's opponents.

For example, the reasons I would have Qawi higher than 24 are:

!) When he beat Matthew Saad Muhammad, he beat a true ATG, close to his prime, but that isn't a criterion in Cliff's algorithm.

2) When Qawi and Holyfield had one of the greatest fights in Cruiserweight history (in their first fight), even though said a lot about Qawi's quality as a fighter, it didn't make any difference to Cliff's list because (a) how well you fought doesn't carry any weight in Cliff's algorithm, a loss is a loss, and (b) Cliff's algorithm takes no account of what a fighter did in other weight divisions, only what he did at Light Heavyweight.

Actually, my personal take is a factor. Read closely...in this approach, because of the greater depth at the original eight as compered to most of the other nine, I do supply a personal touch (i.e. I'm willing to move a guy around). That did help Muhammad over Qawi because of some of the things you cite. Saad's longer, generally deeper body of work aided as well. My personal feeling son their qualities matters less...that's a 'what style do you like' thing. You are right though...I am concerned with Light Heavyweight accomplishment and not what happened elsewhere.

On another note, Jose Torres missed altogether. His body of work in the division is shallow.

As to Roy, there is a more compelling argument to move him DOWN then there is to move him past anyone who is above him (I think that will speak for itself when we run the top 10 piece).

[RightCross94]

I would rank Ezzard no.1, and Archie Moore 2nd

[crold1]

I would rank Ezzard no.1, and Archie Moore 2nd

I agree with one of those.

[D-MiZe]

I hate the fact that everyone thinks Roy Jones Jr should be automatically first place in every division he's fought in.

Even if RJJ had one fight at WW and lost they'd still consider him the best WW ever.

[crold1]

I hate the fact that everyone thinks Roy Jones Jr should be automatically first place in every division he's fought in.

Even if RJJ had one fight at WW and lost they'd still consider him the best WW ever.

Actually, very few think it. Those that do are just really vocal.

[street bully]

You can put an argument for Jones to be in the top 10 but not in the top 5 and no way is he number 1.

Co-sign. I do think he is top 10 though.