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I am rooting for Bob Foster to make it high up in this list
in part 2.Comment
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Hardest punching lightheavy ever, in my opinion. I ranked him first for a long time bvut just can't do that anymore based on his comp, in comparison to other greats. Fantastic fighter though who would have been able to fight with anyone in history at 175.Comment
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calzaghe is an all time great but oscar is not? how are we supposed to take you seriously? can you give any good reasons why calzaghe is an all time great and oscar wouldn't be?
is it cause oscar lost a couple fights to the very best? he still has better wins than calzaghe. julio cesar chavez, whitaker, quartey, trinidad(we know he won that) mosley rematch(same) not to mention a whole bundle of other top tier fighters like hernandez, vargas, ruelas, molina, gonzalez, carr, castillejo.
oh yeah most of those guys were near their prime and held titles when oscar fought them. can't say the same for calzaghe's big wins like eubank, hopkins(most thought he lost) and jones jr. he does have good solid wins over kessler, lacy, mitchell, woodhall, bika and reid but that's hardly comparable to oscar now isn't it.
is it cause calzaghe "dominated" a poor division with many title defenses(against mostly poor fighters)? only 8 out of his 21 defenses were against top 10 ranked fighters according to the ring. manfredo was in the top 10 so it shows you how weak that division was. you dont see people saying sven ottke is an all time great now do you? same number of defenses at the same exact time as calzaghe.
is it cause oscar challenged himself and won belts in 6 different divisions while calzaghe only won 2?
also the fact that he won a lot of fights by early stoppage should taint his career. if you have seen most his fights you will see the majority of "knockouts" he got the other fighter was barely hurt or not hurt at all. surely an all time great wouldn't need to resort to this type of chicanery to win fights?
so basically the only reason you have calzaghe an all time great is cause he's undefeated. you should know no man is unbeatable and either was calzaghe. close fights with hopkins and reid could have gone either way but because of luck, politics, whatever he won them. what if he was 44-2? now what if in oscars close fights the same thing happened and he was 43-2?
fact is oscar competed with the best and held his own his entire career. calzaghe competed with the best a few times and did well but not long enough to crown him an all time great.Comment
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Mind you, the lists that Cliff post are calculated algorithmically using the rules he laid out in the article - so it won't be the same as the list Cliff would have posted if it had been his personal ATG list. For one thing a personal list would generally give more weight to how you subjectively evaluate a fighter's quality as a fighter. For another, a personal list would generally give more weight to how you subjectively evaluate the quality of a fighter's opponents.
For example, the reasons I would have Qawi higher than 24 are:
!) When he beat Matthew Saad Muhammad, he beat a true ATG, close to his prime, but that isn't a criterion in Cliff's algorithm.
2) When Qawi and Holyfield had one of the greatest fights in Cruiserweight history (in their first fight), even though said a lot about Qawi's quality as a fighter, it didn't make any difference to Cliff's list because (a) how well you fought doesn't carry any weight in Cliff's algorithm, a loss is a loss, and (b) Cliff's algorithm takes no account of what a fighter did in other weight divisions, only what he did at Light Heavyweight.Last edited by Dave Rado; 11-06-2009, 01:02 PM.Comment
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When I scrolled down and saw RJJ at 12, I just exited the page....Comment
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