Joe joyce vs Deontay Wilder

[RockyKO]

why wouldn't wilder fight again? hes so back!

Wilder probably needs to fight again so pay that child support. My man has 8 kids with all these different women. Why can't a guy settle down and be happy with 1 woman. I mean I know why but y'know Ideally.

[daggum]

Wilder probably needs to fight again so pay that child support. My man has 8 kids with all these different women. Why can't a guy settle down and be happy with 1 woman. I mean I know why but y'know Ideally.

wait i thought he was a family man? thats how he was promoted. then again he was also promoted as the biggest puncher in boxing history yet has a paltry 25% ko ratio against top 10 opponents so maybe it was all a lie? maybe the nectarine nero was a ra-pist when he admitted it and women confirmed it? geez thats so crazy

[fifth_root]

Like Joyce did any better overall... He even lost to Chisora, who had faced plenty of top opponents and lost to all of them. We can all check their opponents and have our views. Joyce also lost to Hrgovic, who lost to Dubois, who lost to Joyce, however. True, Joyce won against Dubois, but going with the argument of who was old, then I'd say Dubois was young. Joyce lost to old Chisora. In contrast, Wilder has no losses against B-level fighters. So quality over quantity is both fighters' weakness, so quantity over quality matters, also in terms of losses - losing to a B-level fighter puts doubt in your own quality.

It is one thing who you or I personally consider elite, B-level, and C-level, but it seems to be another according to rankings (and in the case of the first Fury-Wilder, what the real result should have been). We disagree for the fighters - fine. As I said, I can see the opposite point of view, and I am not arguing, I am telling you why mine is so.

Joyce	Elite	Daniel Dubois	Jul 2020	14‑0	Win KO 10
Joyce	Elite	Joseph Parker	Sep 2022	29‑2	Win UD 12
Joyce	Elite	Zhilei Zhang	Apr 2023	24‑1‑1	Loss TKO 6
Joyce	Elite	Zhilei Zhang	Sep 2023	25‑1‑1	Loss KO 3
Joyce	Elite	Filip Hrgovic	Apr 2025	17‑0	Loss UD 10
Joyce	B-level	Alexander Ustinov	May 2019	34‑3	Win TKO 3
Joyce	B-level	Bryant Jennings	Feb 2019	24‑2	Win UD 12
Joyce	B-level	Carlos Takam	Sep 2021	38‑5‑1	Win UD 12
Joyce	B-level	Derek Chisora	Jul 2024	34‑13	Loss UD 10
Joyce	C-level	Lenroy Thomas	May 2018	22‑4‑1	Win TKO 2
Joyce	C-level	Joe Hanks	Dec 2018	23‑2	Win KO 1
Joyce	C-level	Michael Wallisch	Jul 2019	23‑3	Win TKO 3
Joyce	C-level	Christian Hammer	Nov 2020	25‑6	Win TKO 4

Wilder	Elite	Bermane Stiverne	Jan 2015	24‑1‑2	Win UD 12
Wilder	Elite	Luis Ortiz	Mar 2018	28‑0	Win TKO 10
Wilder	Elite	Tyson Fury	Dec 2018	27‑0	Draw SD 12
Wilder	Elite	Luis Ortiz	Nov 2019	31‑1	Win KO 7
Wilder	Elite	Tyson Fury	Feb 2020	29‑0	Loss TKO 7
Wilder	Elite	Tyson Fury	Oct 2021	30‑0	Loss KO 11
Wilder	Elite	Joseph Parker	Dec 2023	33‑3	Loss UD 12
Wilder	Elite	Zhilei Zhang	Jun 2024	26‑1‑1	Loss TKO 5
Wilder	B-level	Dominic Breazeale	May 2019	20‑1	Win KO 1
Wilder	B-level	Bermane Stiverne	Feb 2017	25‑2‑1	Win KO 1
Wilder	B-level	Robert Helenius	Oct 2022	31‑3	Win KO 1
Wilder	B-level	Derek Chisora	Apr 2026	34‑13	Win SD 12
Wilder	C-level	Siarhei Liakhovich	Aug 2013	24‑3	Win KO 1
Wilder	C-level	Malik Scott	Mar 2014	38‑1‑1	Win KO 1
Wilder	C-level	Eric Molina	Jun 2015	23‑2	Win KO 9
Wilder	C-level	Johann Duhaupas	Sep 2015	32‑2	Win TKO 11
Wilder	C-level	Artur Szpilka	Jan 2016	20‑1	Win KO 9
Wilder	C-level	Chris Arreola	Jul 2016	36‑4‑1	Win TKO 8
Wilder	C-level	Gerald Washington	Feb 2017	19‑0	Win TKO 5
Wilder	C-level	Tyrrell Herndon	Jun 2025	16‑1	Win TKO 7

[fifth_root]

(Posted the same twice for some reason.)

[RockyKO]

So if Joyce fought Wilder maybe 5 or 6 years ago then we should all agree that Wilder would have won. Joyce doesn't have the reflexes or speed to avoid Wilder's big right hand.

Wilder vs Joyce - Wilder W
Power - Wilder
Speed - Wilder
Jab - Joyce
Ring IQ - Joyce
Chin - Joyce
Stamina - Joyce
Volume - Joyce
Resume - Joyce
Accolades - Wilder

On paper Joyce is probably the 'better' fighter. But that doesn't necessarily translate into the real world in the ring. Just stylistically Wilder would have given Joyce a lot of problems in the ring in their prime. Also, the thread question is about greatness and not skill set. We use Championships as a measuring stick for greatness. We can trash Wilder all day however he did win the WBC Championship and held it for 5 yrs. But I already know the retort is that they were C + of B - fighters and whatever. Give Wilder some credit he achieved a lot in boxing.

[dan_cov]

Wilder is the better puncher, Joyce is a better fighter. Better resume.

[dan_cov]

I get the logic that Wilder would land clean right hands so he wins but he landed a million clean right hands on Szpilka who has a terrible, terrible chin before he finally put him out.
Could you imagine Szpilka eating 150 clean as you like right hands from say Wardley or an Itauma or AJ even? I couldn't at all.
He landed countless on some guy named Hardon. Zhang was old as hell and just walked through them. Landed about 50 right hands in a row on Chisora who was 43? and getting dropped left and right by average punchers like Parker.

Its about time we reevaluate Wilders right hand/power and frankly stop acting like everything he touches turns to dust. I am in no way saying he can't punch but his power didn't really translate to elite level.

People think he'd be all wrong for Joyce but isn't a gigantic, high volume pressure fighter with a stiff jab, a granite chin with endless cardio all wrong for a guy who is totally reliant on fighters being static at the end of his right hand?

[fifth_root]

So if Joyce fought Wilder maybe 5 or 6 years ago then we should all agree that Wilder would have won. Joyce doesn't have the reflexes or speed to avoid Wilder's big right hand.

I think Wilder would have won because Joyce's defense is nonexistent, he literally takes everything thrown at his face. And doing so against young(er) Wilder... It's what made him KOed twice by Zhang.

[JimRaynor]

not sure if it was easy but beating parker and dubois is a hell of a lot harder than what wilder did which was beating a bunch of unranked bums. wilder beat 1 top 10 opponent in all those defenses and someone who is nowhere near as good as dubois or parker. ever heard the phrase quality over quantity? the guys joyce beat in his early career were about as good as wilders defenses, guys like stiverne who was one of wilders best wins and guys like jennings who was ortizs best win but joyce didnt have a belt to label them defenses. the label isnt what matters. the substance is what matters and wilder did not have it. he kept figthing guys like arreola, spilzka, washington, molina, duhapas, etc...

Joe Joyce is a tough guy, and if you want to get technical sure, his two wins over Parker and Dubois are better than anything Wilder had, but Wilder was WBC champ for 5 years and had 10 defenses, and Joe never won a title. Secondly, if you took a prime Wilder and a prime Joyce, I think there is no doubt that Wilder sparks him. Joe joyce fighting style is tailor made for Wilders right hand.