James Toney says Oleksander Usyk is NOT an ATG

[BlackSoul]

I agree but for different reasons than James Toney.

My reasoning is as follows:

Wilder, joshua, and fury are the top 3 heavyweights of the last 11 Years most folk dont consider them "atg's" but somehow usyk is an atg by beating joshua and fury and a fury that has been in 3 wars with Wilder and ppl say Wilder isnt that great so if usyk beat a fury that got knocked down like 5 times by Wilder and its def is NOT a "prime" fury then why does he get the credit for being an atg?

Toneys assessment is a "subjective analysis" of a fighter who has 24 fights i think only 8 at the HW weight class and somehow someway he is considered an ATG fighter. when ALL the other HW greats have like 60, 70, 80, 90 fights and he gets to usurp ALL that fighting to be considered on their level when he fought anthony joshua(2X), fury(2x), dubois(2X) and out of those 8 fights at HW 6 of those are JUST 3 fighters, dereck chisora, and chazz witherspoon at HW. i mean come on mane, what 24 fight resume bolsters one to be an ATG heavyweight?

[Theshotyoudontsee]

If you consider the comp in different era's, the only way to say any fighter over the last decade or so is an ATG is via eye test. Floyd and Pac both obviously are there based on what they did in their early careers.

Apart from them, for me at least, Bud is the one guy who I believe could have fought in any era and beat the best of that era. And that is purely eye test and I said it before he even beat Spence. He has intangibles that 99% of fighters don't have.

Usyk is a very good fighter but not an ATG IMO. Fury was past his best and AJ is a good puncher, not a great boxer.

[RockyKO]

If we're going say that Usyk isn't an all time great because his resume isn't that great compared to fighters from 70's and 80's. Then you have to tell me why he doesn't past the eye test? Every argument I hear about Usyk not belonging up there with the Ali's, Fraziers, and Joe Louis is because he beat AJ, Fury, and Dubois. So he beat the Champions of his time period. How is that argument against Usyk not being an all time great? This is the era that he fought in. Listen, I'm not saying that he is an all time great but I wish people would actually make arguments with substance. You actually have to talk about his ring generalship, foot movement, IQ, and power then compare/contrast to the former greats.

[Coverdale]

James Toney is an edgelord.

[BlackSoul]

If you consider the comp in different era's, the only way to say any fighter over the last decade or so is an ATG is via eye test. Floyd and Pac both obviously are there based on what they did in their early careers.

Apart from them, for me at least, Bud is the one guy who I believe could have fought in any era and beat the best of that era. And that is purely eye test and I said it before he even beat Spence. He has intangibles that 99% of fighters don't have.

Usyk is a very good fighter but not an ATG IMO. Fury was past his best and AJ is a good puncher, not a great boxer.

i wholeheartedly agree with this assessment and how i arrived at my conclusion. i actually like usyk to be honest BUT he only got 24 fights. he did MOST of his work in the AMATEURS.
agreed as well on mayweather and pacquiao
also again, agreed on Bud.

[dan_cov]

The thing with the ''he's not beat an ATG'' argument is it always ends in moving goal posts. Suddenly its well they never beat a prime ATG or they are on the lower end of some subjective list Joe Bloggs created.

Briedis is easily a top 5 CW. That's an ATG surely? like I was saying above they will move goal posts and say oh nobody cares about CW.
Gassiev is a top CW also. AJ & Fury are probably top 12-15ish HWs? where is the cut off line?

Can a fighter not be an ATG without having beat one? Can you not become an ATG by say beating or dominating a load of otherwise excellent fighters?

There are actually quite a few ATGs who never beat an ATG or arguably never. What ATG did Chavez Sr beat? Finito Lopez?

[ThunderFists]

If you consider the comp in different era's, the only way to say any fighter over the last decade or so is an ATG is via eye test. Floyd and Pac both obviously are there based on what they did in their early careers.

Apart from them, for me at least, Bud is the one guy who I believe could have fought in any era and beat the best of that era. And that is purely eye test and I said it before he even beat Spence. He has intangibles that 99% of fighters don't have.

Usyk is a very good fighter but not an ATG IMO. Fury was past his best and AJ is a good puncher, not a great boxer.

inoue could have competed and beat the best in any era as well, he is the best fighter to ever come out of japan.

[Haka]

Usyk is an easy UD for fat Toney.

[Coverdale]

The thing with the ''he's not beat an ATG'' argument is it always ends in moving goal posts. Suddenly its well they never beat a prime ATG or they are on the lower end of some subjective list Joe Bloggs created.

Briedis is easily a top 5 CW. That's an ATG surely? like I was saying above they will move goal posts and say oh nobody cares about CW.
Gassiev is a top CW also. AJ & Fury are probably top 12-15ish HWs? where is the cut off line?

Can a fighter not be an ATG without having beat one? Can you not become an ATG by say beating or dominating a load of otherwise excellent fighters?

There are actually quite a few ATGs who never beat an ATG or arguably never. What ATG did Chavez Sr beat? Finito Lopez?

He's obviously an ATG. When people talk about cruiserweight and heavyweight history Usyk will be mentioned, he's therefore an ATG.

Americans, and American fighters specifically, seem to have a lot of resistance to giving non-Americans credit. Especially when the fighters in question behave like normal people outside the ring.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Toney took far too many blows to the head.

Olympic Champion. Undisputed Cruiserweight Champion. Undisputed Heavyweight Champion. Defeated 7 World Champions in their home country. Sounds like an ATG to me.