Comments Thread For: Mayweather-Pacquiao II talks initiated

[Coverdale]

Ok forget all the psycho therapy sessions and let’s just get to it, at what point in the fight do you think a warning for excessive holding would have been warranted?

Bear in mind the highest number of clinches in 1 round was 4 (rounds 2 and 3). After round 6 (3) there was never a round that had more than 2, with 3 of those rounds being 1, 1 and 0 cliches.

At what point did the holding become excessive to you? Bear in mind that again there are 21 occasions any kind of holding was done, in a 12 round fight. Just bear that massively important to the discussion objective fact in mind.

The warning should always come as early as possible otherwise it obviously impacts the overall journey of the fight, which it very likely did in this fight. Bayless was just too conditioned to view Mayweather's fouling as normal having refereed five of his previous fights at that point.

Lennox Lewis got a warning in the 2nd round for his holding against Tyson, for example.

[TheProudLunatic]

Pac has been very eager to keep fighting while May has been content in his retirement

Someone is desperate for funds

[Oregonian]

Because pac s greater, and can't claim to be better h2h even with one win over pac With 2 wins he can at least claim to be better h2h if not having greater career. And first fight so many controversies of one kind or another

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PAC has MULTIPLE losses. Perhaps an Ugas rematch would also make sense to prove Ugas wasn’t “lucky”?

Anyone who has beaten PAC needs to have TWO wins to claim to be better. Unbelievable!

Controversies?? LOL … like the “rotator calf injury”? We also heard of the “calf muscle injury” when he lost to Ugas.
There was also the “lucky punch” from Marquez even after being dropped earlier by another “lucky punch”. Ther was the “he beat Morales better” than Morales beat him.
There was the “robbery” with Tim Bradley. There was the “inexperienced” when he got KO’d by Singsurat.

There was also the kickboxer and YouTuber exhibitions that you guys swore PAC would never do until he did and then it became “he has earned the right to make money”.

[davef]

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PAC has MULTIPLE losses. Perhaps an Ugas rematch would also make sense to prove Ugas wasn’t “lucky”?

Anyone who has beaten PAC needs to have TWO wins to claim to be better. Unbelievable!

Controversies?? LOL … like the “rotator calf injury”? We also heard of the “calf muscle injury” when he lost to Ugas.
There was also the “lucky punch” from Marquez even after being dropped earlier by another “lucky punch”. Ther was the “he beat Morales better” than Morales beat him.
There was the “robbery” with Tim Bradley. There was the “inexperienced” when he got KO’d by Singsurat.

There was also the kickboxer and YouTuber exhibitions that you guys swore PAC would never do until he did and then it became “he has earned the right to make money”.

You forgot to add he lost to a school teacher in Jeff Horn

[hugh grant]

——-
PAC has MULTIPLE losses. Perhaps an Ugas rematch would also make sense to prove Ugas wasn’t “lucky”?

Anyone who has beaten PAC needs to have TWO wins to claim to be better. Unbelievable!

Controversies?? LOL … like the “rotator calf injury”? We also heard of the “calf muscle injury” when he lost to Ugas.
There was also the “lucky punch” from Marquez even after being dropped earlier by another “lucky punch”. Ther was the “he beat Morales better” than Morales beat him.
There was the “robbery” with Tim Bradley. There was the “inexperienced” when he got KO’d by Singsurat.

There was also the kickboxer and YouTuber exhibitions that you guys swore PAC would never do until he did and then it became “he has earned the right to make money”.

Well, pac s greater than everyone he's lost to. Ugas can rematch pac to be first to best pac twice. But Pac don't need to rematch ugas, as he's greater. Pac don't need floyd rematch, but fans wouldn't mind knowing in a trilogy does pac win 2 times out of 3

[Oregonian]

Well, pac s greater than everyone he's lost to. Ugas can rematch pac to be first to best pac twice. But Pac don't need to rematch ugas, as he's greater. Pac don't need floyd rematch, but fans wouldn't mind knowing in a trilogy does pac win 2 times out of 3

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PAC has achieved more than the guy’s he’s lost to. Don’t mean he’s greater. Those multiple losses and head to head loss to Floyd work against him.
The dubious “8 division titles” fall apart under a forensic scrutiny .

Example: A vacant 154 belt at a catchweight of 150 against a guy coming off a spectacular KO loss is dubious as it comes.

[hugh grant]

———
PAC has achieved more than the guy’s he’s lost to. Don’t mean he’s greater. Those multiple losses and head to head loss to Floyd work against him.
The dubious “8 division titles” fall apart under a forensic scrutiny .

Example: A vacant 154 belt at a catchweight of 150 against a guy coming off a spectacular KO loss is dubious as it comes.

Well, i doubt Horn, JMM, Sinsurat, and Ugas think theyre greater than Pac. I dont think Nelo or Pac or DLH would say Floyds greater than themselves.

[Coverdale]

If you enjoyed the 50-0 hometown guy that's great. Why the need to keep arguing about it? Just go watch the reruns. That awesome Baldomir fight will live through the ages.

[IronDanHamza]

The warning should always come as early as possible otherwise it obviously impacts the overall journey of the fight, which it very likely did in this fight. Bayless was just too conditioned to view Mayweather's fouling as normal having refereed five of his previous fights at that point.

Lennox Lewis got a warning in the 2nd round for his holding against Tyson, for example.

So when then, for Floyd? After the first clinch you think a warning should be given?

Ok great example there with Tyson-Lennox, Would you say Lewis was excessively holding in that fight? How many times did Lennox hold vs Tyson before he was warned?

Lewis held TWELVE times vs Mike Tyson in ROUND 1 ALONE. That's over half the amount of times Mayweather held vs Pacquaio IN THE ENTIRE FIGHT.

The ref warned him for the first time at clinch #13, round 2.

In comparison, Mayweather reached clinch #13 in round 6 vs Pacquaio. So, you think he should have warned at clinch #13? There was only another 8 in the following 6 rounds total. On top of that, if Floyd held 12 times in 1 round I'd imagine he'd get a warning. Problem there is the maximum he held in any round was 4 times, and that was only in 2 of the 12 rounds. The vast majority of rounds were 2 or less.

I'll just ask the same question again in context to your example, how is that excessive holding?

[Coverdale]

So when then, for Floyd? After the first clinch you think a warning should be given?

Ok great example there with Tyson-Lennox? Would you say Lewis was excessively holding in that fight? How many times did Lennox hold vs Tyson before he was warned?

Lewis held TWELVE times vs Mike Tyson in ROUND 1 ALONE. That's over half the amount of times Mayweather held vs Pacquaio IN THE ENTIRE FIGHT.

The ref warned him for the first time at clinch #13, round 2.

In comparison, Mayweather reached clinch #13 in round 6 vs Pacquaio. So, you think he should have warned at clinch #13? There was only another 8 in the following 6 rounds total. On top of that, if Floyd held 12 times in 1 round I'd imagine he'd get a warning. Problem there is the maximum he held in any round was 4 times, and that was only in 2 of the 12 rounds. The vast majority of rounds were 2 or less.

I'll just ask the same question again in context to your example, how is that excessive holding?

In absolute terms it's not excessive holding. I'm assuming your numbers are correct. I think you said previously you're counting pushing down of the head, right?

The referee can warn for the first infringement if he so wishes. Obviously he needs to distinguish between a genuine tangle and one fighter simply holding to thwart an attack (which is illegal and obviously impacts the flow of the fight).

I already made clear I am not making exactly the same argument as the other people you're bickering with. I only interjected because I felt you were being a little reductive. Floyd held to avoid exchanging. It contributed to what was a typically dull fight. I think better refereeing of his fights would have led to better outcomes. Obviously fans of the guy don't care about this (not saying you're one), they just wanted the W however it came.