Poliwog lmaoooooooooooooo

[IronDanHamza]

Norton beat the ghost of Ali. As did Jimmy Young Leon Spinks Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick.

Norton beat Ali in 1973. Before Ali had even beat Foreman.

How was that the "ghost of Ali?"

[dan_cov]

Norton beat the ghost of Ali. As did Jimmy Young Leon Spinks Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick.

Norton beat him before Ali had beaten Frazier and Foreman.
Ali was super active and coming off some great performances.

If Ali was a ghost at that time what was Zhang and Wilder at the time Parker met them?

[MulaKO]

Joe is basically Ken Norton Ron Lyle John Ruiz Andrew Golota Dillian Whyte Gerry Cooney Ray Mercer level ... good solid basic top ten top five contender. Just short of champion caliber.

Kind of like Whyte , the guy you truly praise , right Combat Rock ???

At least Parker doesn’t need that extra juice you moron

SMFH

[Bennyleonard99]

Norton beat Ali in 1973. Before Ali had even beat Foreman.

How was that the "ghost of Ali?"

Ali did not look himself in that first Norton fight.

[Bennyleonard99]

Norton beat him before Ali had beaten Frazier and Foreman.
Ali was super active and coming off some great performances.

If Ali was a ghost at that time what was Zhang and Wilder at the time Parker met them?

I never rated Zhang or Wilder as elite hwts. Again, Ali did not look himself in the first Norton fight. Maybe took him lightly, overconfident, complacent. No knock on Norton I loved Norton. Wish Norton got rematch vs Holmes Never understood why it never happened.

[IronDanHamza]

Ali did not look himself in that first Norton fight.

How so? Looked totally fine to me.

But either way you just said it was "the ghost of Ali that Young, Spinks, Holmes and Berbick beat."

For starters, Jimmy Young didn't even beat Ali. So you were already wrong there.

Secondly, as previously stated, Ali lost to Norton in 73. He lost to Spinks in 78, Holmes in 1980 and Berbick in 81.

So how does that make sense?

[IronDanHamza]

I never rated Zhang or Wilder as elite hwts. Again, Ali did not look himself in the first Norton fight. Maybe took him lightly, overconfident, complacent. No knock on Norton I loved Norton. Wish Norton got rematch vs Holmes Never understood why it never happened.

So why did you say it was the "Ghost of Ali that Spinks, Holmes and Berbick beat"

When those fights happened 5 7 and 8 years later?

Now you're backtracking and saying "he didn't look himself" but that isn't what you said, you said that it was the same version that those men beat.

Did you think that Norton beat Ali in 1976 in their third fight? Think you did.

[dan_cov]

Just my incoherent ramblings but I find it impossible to put these modern HWs on par with HWs of the past. The modern fighter might have more top 10 wins but most of them in the top 10 wouldn't even be close in other eras. Its far easier to catapult up the rankings today, to pick and chose and be inactive and to bide your time for some high ranked dope to come along.
Sometimes I'll watch an old fight between two nobodies, like two guys sort of 25-8 and 23-6 and I'm just blown away by how much more fluid and infinitely more skilled they are than todays HWs. I watched Michael Dokes the other month, bloody hell imagine him coming through today the hype would be crazy and people would be saying he fought like a Welterweight. What really gets me is the hand speed and the differential in snap on their punches. Todays HWs look like they're fighting underwater. Slow everything, clubbing, can see the shots coming a mile away. I think Parker has pretty fast hands but his techniques so bad you can see them coming a mile away. He's very limited in terms of punch variety also there was times Wardley of all fighters actually picked up on a lot of it and looked pretty sound defensively.

Parker has lost to literally 4 English fighters alone, 5 if we're to inc the first Chisora fight. He has some good wins but for me its timing and I just can not buy he is #2 in the world by beating a few 40 odd yr olds who couldn't be anymore limited when he has 4-5 losses to English fighters alone, there is Fury also who would unquestionably beat him up, Itauma most likely flattens him also maybe 1 or 2 others. I get its sort of two separate eras but there have likely been 5 fighters just in England that have or would beat him alone at virtually any point in time.
I think all these HWs have severe limitations are so vulnerable that its giving a false perception - Dubois' resurgence was another one. It was smoke and mirrors really.
I think he is better than Parker but it still gets me wondering is Kabayel really what we think or is he just another good but far from great fighter who has benefitted by beating a load of really limited punchers who I suspect would get beat by virtually any somewhat decent & durable HW that was in shape.

With Parker I see someone with slab feet, pretty fast hands tbf to him and a good but far from granite chin (I think he does have a decent beard but even that is overrated to a degree). I don't see a skilled fighter. He is painfully average and always was.
He has no footwork or jab, his defence is awful, very mediocre power.
With say a Norton I see the complete opposite - Good feet, great at cutting a ring off, super underrated head movement. Long arms, good jab, a variety of guards, superb at blocking and parrying the jab. I see a supremely conditioned, great boxer that fought well at every range.
One guys neutralising one of the fastest and best jabbers in the sports history, the other is getting his head jabbed off by a white collar fighter.
Todays HWs just have no real skill.

[NihonJim]

Just my incoherent ramblings but I find it impossible to put these modern HWs on par with HWs of the past. The modern fighter might have more top 10 wins but most of them in the top 10 wouldn't even be close in other eras. Its far easier to catapult up the rankings today, to pick and chose and be inactive and to bide your time for some high ranked dope to come along.
Sometimes I'll watch an old fight between two nobodies, like two guys sort of 25-8 and 23-6 and I'm just blown away by how much more fluid and infinitely more skilled they are than todays HWs. I watched Michael Dokes the other month, bloody hell imagine him coming through today the hype would be crazy and people would be saying he fought like a Welterweight. What really gets me is the hand speed and the differential in snap on their punches. Todays HWs look like they're fighting underwater. Slow everything, clubbing, can see the shots coming a mile away. I think Parker has pretty fast hands but his techniques so bad you can see them coming a mile away. He's very limited in terms of punch variety also there was times Wardley of all fighters actually picked up on a lot of it and looked pretty sound defensively.

Parker has lost to literally 4 English fighters alone, 5 if we're to inc the first Chisora fight. He has some good wins but for me its timing and I just can not buy he is #2 in the world by beating a few 40 odd yr olds who couldn't be anymore limited when he has 4-5 losses to English fighters alone, there is Fury also who would unquestionably beat him up, Itauma most likely flattens him also maybe 1 or 2 others. I get its sort of two separate eras but there have likely been 5 fighters just in England that have or would beat him alone at virtually any point in time.
I think all these HWs have severe limitations are so vulnerable that its giving a false perception - Dubois' resurgence was another one. It was smoke and mirrors really.
I think he is better than Parker but it still gets me wondering is Kabayel really what we think or is he just another good but far from great fighter who has benefitted by beating a load of really limited punchers who I suspect would get beat by virtually any somewhat decent & durable HW that was in shape.

With Parker I see someone with slab feet, pretty fast hands tbf to him and a good but far from granite chin (I think he does have a decent beard but even that is overrated to a degree). I don't see a skilled fighter. He is painfully average and always was.
He has no footwork or jab, his defence is awful, very mediocre power.
With say a Norton I see the complete opposite - Good feet, great at cutting a ring off, super underrated head movement. Long arms, good jab, a variety of guards, superb at blocking and parrying the jab. I see a supremely conditioned, great boxer that fought well at every range.
One guys neutralising one of the fastest and best jabbers in the sports history, the other is getting his head jabbed off by a white collar fighter.
Todays HWs just have no real skill.

I agree but by the same token all these people say Usyk is the GOAT which doesn't add up to me if he's beating stiff limited bums once per year

[pollywog]

Wardley has redefined my view of the fragile, flawed and fraudulent Brit heavyweight.

There's no hype about him just evidenced based results.

Dude is a fücking warrior!!!