Floyd Rewatching Marquez-Pacquiao IV

[Gary Coleman]

God Bless Floyd and Manny but Floyd had a fight in Mexico not too long ago and it obviously didn't do very well. If Manny were to fight again this year, I don't think he'd be the biggest draw nowadays.

It was tongue-in-cheek, based on the amount of activity in this thread.

[HisExcellency]

Keith Thurman has never knocked out or stopped a ranked opponent. That is a fact.

He has barely even dropped ranked opponents. Also a fact.

Facts don't care about your feelings unfortunately. You might feel like Thurman is some big puncher but he objectively is not. Because if he was, he would have a KO vs a ranked opponent. But, he doesn't, thus he's not.



He didn't have an easy time dropping at 150 to fight Steve Forbes let alone Welterweight. But that's neither here nor there anyway.

It still doesn't change the fact that in 2008 his natural and comfortable weight was at Jr Middleweight hence the fact he'd been campaigning there for 7 years.

If you can't understand something as simple as that then you're as close to brain dead as it gets I'm afraid.

Lol complete and utter NONSENSE on both parts as usual.

Firstly, you DON'T have to have only knocked out ranked opposition to be considered a puncher. Secondly, if you read through our previous discussion, Thurman HAS either dropped or knocked out a handful of the ranked opponents he's faced with the others only having been stopped in the FINAL fight of their careers and previously going the distance with MANY top Welterweights at the time.

Therefore, the fact that he has a 74% career KO ratio, has either dropped or stopped 25/31 opponents he's ever shared the ring with (including many top 20/top 10 contenders, mandatory challengers and other champions - including ranked opposition) plus ALL media/fans/pundits/former fighters consider him a puncher (hence the 'One Time' moniker) makes him 1000000% a puncher (despite what one random NOBODY on the internet who refuses to admit ever being wrong thinks!)

Case closed and I'm NOT debating this point again.

As for DLH, firstly we're only talking about dropping ONE weight class (as opposed to the almost 2 weight divisions Mayweather forced Marquez to climb in order to fight him). Secondly, DLH only campaigned at Junior Middleweight for the last few years of his career because like all ageing fighters, it was simply more CONVENIENT for him but that still doesn't make it his 'natural weight class. If so, how come he had NO issues making the Welterweight limit and actually came in 2lbs LIGHTER on the scales (this makes your point about Forbes totally irrelevant)? Finally, the fight had NO rehydration clause yet DLH only weighed 147lbs on fight night which PROVES that he was able to shuttle between the 2 weight classes with no issues at all (this makes perfect sense since he's fought twice as many fights at Welterweight as opposed to Junior Middleweight).

GTFO buddy!

[HisExcellency]

It is quite literally the same thing.

Both are S&C coaches, with links to PEDs.

Infact, atleast Memo is transparent about it, unlike Ariza who despite links to PED use has never been transparent and just caught out.

You're just deciding to consider one of them reasons to deem an athlete a drug cheat and not the other. Which, is just overt hypocrisy.



Memo was never convicted of anything either. He was a federal witness.

Both Memo and Ariza have links to PEDs. It's a simple as that.



I mean yeah, it's su****ious. But su****ion isn't evidence for someone being a drug cheat. You can't label someone a drug cheat due to suspsicion.

Manny Pacquaio is suscpious aswell. You can't label him a drug cheat for that reason either.





I'm well aware who Memo is. He's an expert in his field. As is Alex Ariza, by the way.

It's irrelevant to the point. You can't just deem someone a drug cheat for working with someone linked to PEDs and if you are then you'll have to deem the same for everyone else that has worked with people linked to PEDs. Such as, Manny Pacquaio for example.

It's one or the other. You can't have both.

MORE nonsense...the only reason Memo wasn't convicted is because he turned federal witness and ADMITTED to supplying a vast number of athletes with EPO, steroids & HGH. Therefore, the fact that he's a known PED supplier to a large number of clients and Marquez suddenly developed KO power out of seemingly nowhere is an open and shut case. In fact, if you read the article below which was written PRIOR to Pacquiao-Marquez 4, many in the boxing community (including former trainers/S&C coaches etc) were questioning Marquez's sudden muscular transformation and ability to lift huge weights at the age of 39yo and saying it simply WASN'T possible without the assistance of PEDs. Are you going to claim they don't know what they're talking about? In fact, the journalist went on to correctly PREDICT that any stoppage victory would be tainted and hugely dubious which is exactly what happened lmao!

https://sports.yahoo.com/boxing--jua...200532499.html

As for Ariza, there have certainly been rumours about him due to Pacquiao's meteoric rise but NO charges or former athletes speaking out against him let alone admissions on his part. Therefore, the two AREN'T comparable at all. As for the Rios incident, the banned substance he tested positive for was a dietary supplement and NOT a PED/EPO/steroid like Memo provided to an ENORMOUS pool of clients. Also, I'm pretty sure that Mayweather would've done his due diligence and decided not to hire him if there was any su****ion of wrongdoing on his part.

https://www.boxingscene.com/articles...iled-drug-test

[HisExcellency]

bingo!!! but you know the ped expert dan who doesnt believe manny is on peds unless you start accusing marquez. his justification for this? Rios got popped working with ariza... but pac fired ariza before the rios fight. but dan is so desperate that he's holding onto this, not realizing that floyd hired ariza in 2015 AFTER knowing about the positive test from rios! LOL

LMAO...don't bother wasting your time arguing with this guy - he's simply NEVER wrong despite what the evidence says. For example, I wasted a week debating whether Thurman was a puncher or not in his prime which tells you everything about his intellect & character!

[TheProudLunatic]

Lol complete and utter NONSENSE on both parts as usual.

Firstly, you DON'T have to have only knocked out ranked opposition to be considered a puncher. Secondly, if you read through our previous discussion, Thurman HAS either dropped or knocked out a handful of the ranked opponents he's faced with the others only having been stopped in the FINAL fight of their careers and previously going the distance with MANY top Welterweights at the time.

Therefore, the fact that he has a 74% career KO ratio, has either dropped or stopped 25/31 opponents he's ever shared the ring with (including many top 20/top 10 contenders, mandatory challengers and other champions - including ranked opposition) plus ALL media/fans/pundits/former fighters consider him a puncher (hence the 'One Time' moniker) makes him 1000000% a puncher (despite what one random NOBODY on the internet who refuses to admit ever being wrong thinks!)

Case closed and I'm NOT debating this point again.

As for DLH, firstly we're only talking about dropping ONE weight class (as opposed to the almost 2 weight divisions Mayweather forced Marquez to climb in order to fight him). Secondly, DLH only campaigned at Junior Middleweight for the last few years of his career because like all ageing fighters, it was simply more CONVENIENT for him but that still doesn't make it his 'natural weight class. If so, how come he had NO issues making the Welterweight limit and actually came in 2lbs LIGHTER on the scales (this makes your point about Forbes totally irrelevant)? Finally, the fight had NO rehydration clause yet DLH only weight 147lbs on fight night which PROVES that he was able to shuttle between the 2 weight classes with no issues at all (this makes perfect sense since he's fought twice as many fights at Welterweight as opposed to Junior Middleweight).

GTFO buddy!

Prior to this Jarvis guy (who we will never hear from again), 1x's last official KO was way back in 2013.
In between he had a couple of "retired"
KOs' become less frequent when the comp level increases
Just as Pac -
In his last 17 fights (11 years), only 1 T/KO

It's always easier to move up as opposed to moving down.
Never heard of a guy sweating to gain weight.
I find it odd Pac gets credit for beating the worst versions of DLH and Cotto.
He had the audacity to not rematch Cotto without a clause.
And if "2 lbs" didn't mean anything, Pac wouldn't have demanded the clause.

[Roadblock]

Lol complete and utter NONSENSE on both parts as usual.

Firstly, you DON'T have to have only knocked out ranked opposition to be considered a puncher. Secondly, if you read through our previous discussion, Thurman HAS either dropped or knocked out a handful of the ranked opponents he's faced with the others only having been stopped in the FINAL fight of their careers and previously going the distance with MANY top Welterweights at the time.

Therefore, the fact that he has a 74% career KO ratio, has either dropped or stopped 25/31 opponents he's ever shared the ring with (including many top 20/top 10 contenders, mandatory challengers and other champions - including ranked opposition) plus ALL media/fans/pundits/former fighters consider him a puncher (hence the 'One Time' moniker) makes him 1000000% a puncher (despite what one random NOBODY on the internet who refuses to admit ever being wrong thinks!)

Case closed and I'm NOT debating this point again.

As for DLH, firstly we're only talking about dropping ONE weight class (as opposed to the almost 2 weight divisions Mayweather forced Marquez to climb in order to fight him). Secondly, DLH only campaigned at Junior Middleweight for the last few years of his career because like all ageing fighters, it was simply more CONVENIENT for him but that still doesn't make it his 'natural weight class. If so, how come he had NO issues making the Welterweight limit and actually came in 2lbs LIGHTER on the scales (this makes your point about Forbes totally irrelevant)? Finally, the fight had NO rehydration clause yet DLH only weight 147lbs on fight night which PROVES that he was able to shuttle between the 2 weight classes with no issues at all (this makes perfect sense since he's fought twice as many fights at Welterweight as opposed to Junior Middleweight).

GTFO buddy!

This highlighted is BS and completely ignores their actual fight night weights , and your comment of ODH weighin 147 against Manny proving he can make the weight easy, lol he was dehydrated to the sht-house , he only gained 2lbs because his body shutdown and he couldn't take on fluids and needed IV fluids to gain those 2 lbs, he was dead man walking that's common knowledge so I got no idea wtf you are on about with these weights your claiming and weightclsss jumping/dragging , If you have a 130 weighin and step in the ring at 144, them move up two divisions and step in the ring at WW weighing 146, how much weight did you move up, now while your pondering that, Floyd Manny and JMM all came through 130, from there to 147 those 3 fighters have varied 2 to 5 lb between them spanning 4 divisions.

If you don't understand what Im saying I can break it down further.

[HisExcellency]

I love both fighters. It's a good debate on who had the better career out of Floyd and Manny. I can definitely see both sides of it. Two HoFs

I think Floyd's run at 147 and up was better than Manny though. Floyd beat Oscar, Canelo,
and Manny himself. All 3 of these guys were still at the top of the sport at this point in there careers

Manny had a incredible run as well. I feel like his best 3 wins were Cotto, Oscar, and Keith Thurman. Floyd and Manny were two of the best to ever do it and the fact that people still debate these two shows it.

Pacquiao will go down as the better fighter simply because he's had the GREATER career...

1) Started his career 22lbs LIGHTER than Floyd at Junior Flyweight whereas Mayweather began fighting at Super Featherweight so he's the much SMALLER man
2) 8 DIVISION world champion (vs. 5 for Mayweather)
3) 4 DECADE world champion (vs. 3 for Mayweather)
4) Dropped & defeated a PRIME (30yo), undefeated, avoided Thurman despite being 40yo himself (whereas Mayweather only beat a green 23yo Canelo at a catchweight)

Lol there's a reason why Mayweather AVOIDED him in his prime and only decided to fight when he was 36yo and had already been brutally KO'd by PED cheat Marquez!

[djtmal]

Obviously but like I said before, fighter's put on weight as they get older (like everybody else) and become lazy so it might've been more CONVENIENT for him to fight at Junior Middleweight towards the end of his career (he was 34yo when he fought Mayweather) but that still DOESN'T make it his 'natural' weight class (especially when he's had twice as many fights at Welterweight). Also, we're literally talking about ONE weight division plus he had absolutely no problems boiling down to face Pacquiao and actually weighed in under the limit (145lbs) on the scales. Everything else he said afterwards about being weight drained was just a convenient excuse to detract from the fact that he got battered from pillar to post and couldn't deal with Pacquiao's SPEED.

As for your second comment...LMAO!

Say it again

[HisExcellency]

This highlighted is BS and completely ignores their actual fight night weights , and your comment of ODH weighin 147 against Manny proving he can make the weight easy, lol he was dehydrated to the sht-house , he only gained 2lbs because his body shutdown and he couldn't take on fluids and needed IV fluids to gain those 2 lbs, he was dead man walking that's common knowledge so I got no idea wtf you are on about with these weights your claiming and weightclsss jumping/dragging , If you have a 130 weighin and step in the ring at 144, them move up two divisions and step in the ring at WW weighing 146, how much weight did you move up, now while your pondering that, Floyd Manny and JMM all came through 130, from there to 147 those 3 fighters have varied 2 to 5 lb between them spanning 4 divisions.

If you don't understand what Im saying I can break it down further.

Complete BS...firstly, DLH had only been fighting ONE weight division higher for the past few years so don't act like he was making an enormous sacrifice and dropping down several weight classes to fight Manny. Secondly, he fought Forbes at a 150lbs catchweight in the preceding fight and there have been a MILLION and one fighter's who've boiled down to make weight and then put on an enormous amount of weight overnight. Therefore, all factors considered, he didn't make a drastic weight cut, he fought below Junior Middleweight just 6 months prior to the Pacquiao fight and CHOSE not to bulk up on fight night because he wanted to be LIGHTER on his feet to counteract Pacquiao's insane speed which obviously backfired.

[TheProudLunatic]

Pacquiao will go down as the better fighter simply because he's had the GREATER career...

1) Started his career 22lbs LIGHTER than Floyd at Junior Flyweight whereas Mayweather began fighting at Super Featherweight so he's the much SMALLER man
2) 8 DIVISION world champion (vs. 5 for Mayweather)
3) 4 DECADE world champion (vs. 3 for Mayweather)
4) Dropped & defeated a PRIME (30yo), undefeated, avoided Thurman despite being 40yo himself (whereas Mayweather only beat a green 23yo Canelo at a catchweight)

Lol there's a reason why Mayweather AVOIDED him in his prime and only decided to fight when he was 36yo and had already been brutally KO'd by PED cheat Marquez!

1) May has a 2'' height advantage. Do you think Pac would spend the rest of his career at the lower weights ?
2) Name the guys Pac beat in those div. Let's see if those names are worth a damn
3) (See 2)
4)

"Who remembers this flash knockdown of Keith Thurman by Manny Pacquiao over in their welterweight title matchup from July 20, 2019 on PBC FOX"