Comments Thread For: Eddie Hearn offers his views on potential creation of boxing league

[TMLT87]

I am telling you how Global sports operate 'The UFC is a franchise sport, it is not a global sport. You know precisely what I am saying is correct, but you are choosing not to acknowledge it. And you are attempting to convince yourself that the UFC is a Global sport in the same way that Football, Track and Field Athletics, Rugby and Boxing are as sports'.

There are no World Champions in the UFC, or Mixed Martial Arts 'But there are World Champions in boxing, because it is a Global sport. Which functions and operates from a open class competitive field, like most of the world's global sports'.

Lol ive just listed you a bunch of reasons why it is indeed a global sport and you're basically stubbornly putting your fingers in your ears, going "lalala" and repeating the same ****. In practical terms the UFC being a "franchise" means nothing, you know why? because like I told you, it has signed the vast majority of top fighters in the world to its roster, in fact something like 1 in 10 pro MMA fighters on the planet are in the UFC, you do realise that right? no, of course you dont. There is no sports league on the planet that has that high of a percentage of its entire global talent pool playing in it. They have maybe a dozen promotions from around the world that they show on their own streaming service, they have the Contender series, TUF is still around, they hold international cards constantly which means they regularly scout local talent in those place to put on the cards, they literally scout talent from other sports too (kickboxing, wrestling etc). You clearly dont realise how comprehensive they are and how wide their net is in bringing in talent.

If you look at the champions from other promotions its very rare that one would be favoured to beat the UFC champ, if you really look into it you'll find that these champs in other orgs often have had losses somewhere along the line to fighters who got into the UFC. They are pulling from a GLOBAL TALENT POOL. I'm from the UK and spend a lot of time in Finland and I personally know 3 Brits and 1 Finn who competed in the UFC. So how the **** is it not a global sport?

UFC champs are world champions, you just dont want to believe it because it doesnt fit your narrative that boxing is still some big global sport in comparison. 6 of Usyks 7 HW fights have been against guys from the UK lol, what a "world" champ. Tank? 4 of his last 5 fights against Americans. Bivol/Beterbiev? they're from the same country.

To conclude: Dana White has entered into boxing for reason 'Because it is the premier combat sport in the World, no matter what people say? The UFC and mixed martial arts as a whole has not eclipsed boxing. He has now decided to enter into the major leagues, the Formula 1, Olympic level of combat sports'.

This is you deluding yourself again. Hes the CEO of a promotion that generates more money than every major boxing promotion combined, his net worth is 10x that of Eddie Hearns. Hes getting into boxing because Turki is offering him money to burn to do it, most likely because he wants Dana and the UFC brand to help bring it attention, also to follow the UFC model, and very possibly also to have access to UFC stars for crossover fights etc. How the **** you can spin that into "hes getting into the big leagues" lmao??

I get it though, you are stubborn and stuck in your ways about this stuff. A lot of boxing fans are like that, nothing is going to change their mind.

[TMLT87]

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The "big leagues" lol

[Grimmer]

Boxing isn’t UFC. The talent pool and global participation level in boxing is far too big to constrain into a single organisation of a couple of hundred fighters across 12 divisions. The sanctioning bodies for better or worse are actually a feature of boxing, not a bug and they serve to prevent a bottleneck at the top of the sport which would definitely happen if there were only one set of rankings.

People think they like the idea of one ranking system and one champion, but they certainly wouldn’t if they realised that it would decimate the talent pool over time and ultimately you’d be left with the best fighting the best of a very shallow pool. And this will obviously happen if you have closed off system like UFC. Because fighters won’t simply be able to win their way into the organisation. Because participants will not be selected on sporting merit, but based off business decisions (I.E, is the fighter a big draw, do they have a big social media following, are they marketable, can they speak English well?) So you’re going to have very good fighters who will just not be able to participate in this new league no matter how good they are because their not considered “good for business” and a lesser talented fighter will be allowed entry because they meet the business criteria more. Thus the idea of “the best fighting the best” already becomes something of an illusion.

We need promoters and sanctioning bodies to still operate outside of this new league in order to prevent a monopolisation and the bottleneck of opportunities and participation at the top of the sport.

[TMLT87]

Boxing isn’t UFC. The talent pool and global participation level in boxing is far too big to constrain into a single organisation of a couple of hundred fighters across 12 divisions.

The vast majority of boxing competition is small time and not watched by anybody though. The actual visible aspect of the sport comes down to a few dozen fighters that people care about. It really isnt all that hard to monopolize that when you have vastly more funds at your disposal than the fragmented world of boxing promotions. I mean, the Saudis already host the majority of big fights in boxing at this point.

[Grimmer]

The vast majority of boxing competition is small time and not watched by anybody though. The actual visible aspect of the sport comes down to a few dozen fighters that people care about. It really isnt all that hard to monopolize that when you have vastly more funds at your disposal than the fragmented world of boxing promotions. I mean, the Saudis already host the majority of big fights in boxing at this point.

For sure, but that whole global infrastructure supports the highest level of boxing by allowing numerous pathways for fighters from all over the world to climb regional and federational rankings to try and reach the top of sport. There’s always constant replenishment of talent.

If the top of the sport now becomes a closed, invite only organisation, which is motivated purely by profit, where are pathways for entry for all other fighters whose talent would have landed some form of ranking in the current sanctioning body? How does a kid living on the street in the Philippines become an ATG If there isn’t a pathway for him to reach the top?

The replenishment of talent is a concern because we know that participation in the new league isn’t going to be down purely on sporting merit. The business decisions override the sporting decisions, which does occur now, but at least a degree of independence between the promoters and sanctioning bodies. For example a cash cow can be mandated to fight a challenger which the promoter would rather swerve. But in the new system there won’t be any risky mandatories that will affect business. The rankings will be decided and manipulated in house based and title shots will be given based on what is best for business, in every instance.

And that’s really my concern with this. I know it’s easy to imagine the best version of what this could possibly be and assume this new league will be that and meet all our desires and wishes. But I don’t see how the best aspects of boxing, which we would want to retain carry over to this new model. The talent pool really is boxing biggest features, and that will diminish over time if the the top level of the sport is gated off and the wealth becomes centralised in one organisation which then reduces earning opportunities at every level of the sport right down the very bottom, and participation levels will drop as a result.

[PRINCEKOOL]

For sure, but that whole global infrastructure supports the highest level of boxing by allowing numerous pathways for fighters from all over the world to climb regional and federational rankings to try and reach the top of sport. There’s always constant replenishment of talent.

If the top of the sport now becomes a closed, invite only organisation, which is motivated purely by profit, where are pathways for entry for all other fighters whose talent would have landed some form of ranking in the current sanctioning body? How does a kid living on the street in the Philippines become an ATG If there isn’t a pathway for him to reach the top?

The replenishment of talent is a concern because we know that participation in the new league isn’t going to be down purely on sporting merit. The business decisions override the sporting decisions, which does occur now, but at least a degree of independence between the promoters and sanctioning bodies. For example a cash cow can be mandated to fight a challenger which the promoter would rather swerve. But in the new system there won’t be any risky mandatories that will affect business. The rankings will be decided and manipulated in house based and title shots will be given based on what is best for business, in every instance.

And that’s really my concern with this. I know it’s easy to imagine the best version of what this could possibly be and assume this new league will be that and meet all our desires and wishes. But I don’t see how the best aspects of boxing, which we would want to retain carry over to this new model. The talent pool really is boxing biggest features, and that will diminish over time if the the top level of the sport is gated off and the wealth becomes centralised in one organisation which then reduces earning opportunities at every level of the sport right down the very bottom, and participation levels will drop as a result.

That is essentially the point I have been making 'There is a reason why, most Global sports do not run a franchise business model. None. The only sports which run the model are American based sports, and really? NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL none of those sports are Global sports anywhere near the level of Soccer, Track and Field Athletes, Rugby, Boxing or Tennis'.

And I don't care how popular those Sports are at the top of the pyramid 'I have known many Amateurs boxers, and Track and Field athletes. Why? Because those sports are open class sports, with many levels of competition that are integrated into society. I can say the same for soccer'.

So away from the big televised, and covered events 'It is those levels of a sport, which truly define whether it is global sport'.

I can take a trip down to my local boxing gym, the coaches and fighters there 'Would be able to tell me what they are aspiring to achieve. The performance ladders that potentially every single fighter who walks through the doors, has an opportunity to progress through. From regional, national to International competitions. It is very similar in all other global sports, that are not dominated by a Franchise sports business model'.

Because Franchise business models, do not care about those levels of any sport 'Because it is too vast of an operation for them to control'.

I am not talking about mainstream popularity 'I am talking about the fundamental infrastructure of the sport, boxing is a far more vast and complex sport than Mixed Martial Arts. And that is the reason why in all honesty, this TKO boxing league is not going to take over the entire sport'.

Note: The UFC is basically elite level Mixed Martial Arts 'My former high school had more pupils than there are fighters active in UFC. And the bosses, who run the UFC are trying to promote those fighters as World Champions. They are not World Champions, because they are not competing in a open class global sport'.

There is no real Amateur, Domestic or European levels in the UFC or any Mixed Martial Arts organisations 'There is only the super elite level, which combat sports fans get to observe in the UFC and other similar franchise organisation's'.

I have no doubt that TKO Boxing league is going to be a great addition to the sport 'But it is not going to dissolve the sport, that has already been operating for a very long time with its own prestigious history'.

What makes a sport global is not just the visible elite levels of the sport 'It is the levels of the sport, which people don't see but? We know are there, and have a major affect upon the participation levels in the sport'.

To conclude: As I have stated before in my earlier post, the TKO Boxing league I would imagine will be good for up and coming fighters, journey men or top level fighters in the latter part of their career. And it will most likely attract surface level sports fans, which other people like to refer to as casual sports fans.

'People with only a surface level interest in anything will struggle to really analyse any sport in-depth. Unfortunately it is this type of individual that mainly makes up society, they are the main consumers. And that is why I think the TKO boxing league, will be a great addition to the sport, and maybe? A more efficient way for certain folk to follow the sport'.

I am not criticizing heavily the demographic of people who only have a surface level interests in sports or any subject 'Because people have many other concerns and priorities in life'

Overall I think the league will do very well once, it develops its brand and product 'But hardcore boxing fans and the wider world, will be aware that boxing is much more vast than just a franchise league' etc.

[TMLT87]

There is a reason why, most Global sports do not run a franchise business model. None. The only sports which run the model are American based sports

The reason is America is a first world country with the population of a continent, the richest nation on the planet and the no1 media market. No other countries really have the ability to run leagues at that level. Even the Premier League doesnt generate as much revenue as the big American sports leagues.

NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL none of those sports are Global sports anywhere near the level of Soccer, Track and Field Athletes, Rugby, Boxing or Tennis'.

Hockey is at least as big globally as rugby, and basketball is significantly bigger. As for boxing, in the vast majority of countries its a niche sport with no real domestic scene. The sport is heavily centered on the US and UK commercially (and Saudi now) with the occasional big card somewhere like Australia. The top boxers in most nations walk the streets completely unrecognised. The talent pool, while bigger than MMA, is still extremely small. We are basically talking about 7000-10,000 MMA pros vs 20-25k pro boxers at this point. Trying to pull the "global sport" card on MMA is silly.

I can take a trip down to my local boxing gym, the coaches and fighters there 'Would be able to tell me what they are aspiring to achieve. The performance ladders that potentially every single fighter who walks through the doors, has a opportunity to progress through. From regional, national to International competitions. It is very similar in all other global sports, that are not dominated by a Franchise sports business model'.

There is no real Amateur, Domestic or European levels in the UFC or any Mixed Martial Arts organisations 'There is only the super elite level, which combat sports fans get to observe in the UFC and other similar franchise organisation's'.

I have no idea how you've come to this conclusion honestly. So where do these super elite level MMA guys come from then? do they just appear from thin air?

There are quite ****ing literally domestic, Euro and world level MMA events happening TONIGHT for ****s sake.

[PRINCEKOOL]

The reason is America is a first world country with the population of a continent, the richest nation on the planet and the no1 media market. No other countries really have the ability to run leagues at that level. Even the Premier League doesnt generate as much revenue as the big American sports leagues.



Hockey is at least as big globally as rugby, and basketball is significantly bigger. As for boxing, in the vast majority of countries its a niche sport with no real domestic scene. The sport is heavily centered on the US and UK commercially (and Saudi now) with the occasional big card somewhere like Australia. The top boxers in most nations walk the streets completely unrecognised. The talent pool, while bigger than MMA, is still extremely small. We are basically talking about 7000-10,000 MMA pros vs 20-25k pro boxers at this point. Trying to pull the "global sport" card on MMA is silly.



I have no idea how you've come to this conclusion honestly. So where do these super elite level MMA guys come from then? do they just appear from thin air?

There are quite ****ing literally domestic, Euro and world level MMA events happening TONIGHT for ****s sake.

There is no domestic or European level in the sport of Mixed Martial Arts 'There are only individual Mixed Martial Arts Franchise's, and? Some of those Franchise companies or organisations are better than others i.e. The UFC is considered one of the best sport franchises in mixed martial arts, that is why they refer to the champions in the UFC as World Champions. But technically they are not World Champions, they are only Champions of a minuscule franchise in terms participation compared to boxing'.

Like I mentioned in my early posts 'My high school had a higher number of pupils, than there are active fighters in the UFC'.

There are no World Champions in sports which are dominated and run by Franchise Business models 'There are only Champions of those individual in house competitions, or leagues. There are also no defined domestic, or European levels only? Individual sports franchise that are not as successful compared to their competitors'.

According to you? There is a domestic level in the sport of Mixed Marital arts 'If this is true. You would be able to tell me and everyone else reading this thread the answer to these next following questions.

These questions are very straight forward, and I am sure many people on this forum could tell me 'The National Champions in boxing, in their native countries'.

Who is the British Heavyweight Champion in the entire sport of Mixed Martial Arts in the UK?

Who is the French Heavyweight Champion in the entire sport of Mixed Martial Arts in France?

Who is the American Heavyweight Champion in the entire sport of Mixed Martial Arts in the United States of America?

Note: In boxing the current British Heavyweight Champion is Fabio Wardly, he is the current holder of the prestigious Lonsdale belt 'The first Lonsdale belt was awarded to a fighter in 1909, which makes the title 116 years old'.

By now TMLT87, you have most likely realized there is zero way you can answer my questions 'And unequivocally state who the National domestic Champions are in the sport of mixed martial arts. Because as I told you before, Mixed Martial Arts is not a Global sports in the same way that Soccer, Rugby, Track and Field Athletes, Tennis, Cycling are and more'.

If you are a honest poster, you will concede that I have proven you wrong in this section of the debate 'Everyone on this forum, can see that I am 1000% correct'..

To conclude: There are no domestic, European levels of Mixed Martial Arts 'It is a sport which is only compromised of a bunch of individual sports franchise, some of those companies are better than others such as the UFC'.

Boxing is a open class sport, it is not dependent on any individual sports franchise 'And as a sport it is far too vast, for one sports franchise to completely control'.

The TKO boxing league I think is going to be good for boxing, as it should be easier platform for surface level sports fans to follow and learn about the sport. It will also be good for up and coming fighters, journey men, and top level fighters in the latter stages of their careers' etc.

[TMLT87]

These questions are very straight forward, and I am sure many people on this forum could tell me 'The National Champions in boxing, in their native countries'.

Who is the British Heavyweight Champion in the entire sport of Mixed Martial Arts in the UK?

Who is the French Heavyweight Champion in the entire sport of Mixed Martial Arts in France?

Who is the American Heavyweight Champion in the entire sport of Mixed Martial Arts in the United States of America?

Note: In boxing the current British Heavyweight Champion is Fabio Wardly, he is the current holder of the prestigious Lonsdale belt 'The first Lonsdale belt was awarded to a fighter in 1909, which makes the title 116 years old'.

You are getting hung up on semantics here. What does it matter if you slap an "official" "national" title on something or not? why exactly does it mean more to you than someone being an MMA "franchise" champion in a promotion that largely draws in talent from a certain country/region? I mean Wardley being the British HW champ already exposes how ****** and meaningless this concept is. Hes isnt the best HW in Britain but conversely he obviously isnt domestic level either. So what exactly is the title supposed to convey about his level?

Anyway to answer your questions -

British HW champion? the literal UFC HW champion (well...interim technically) is British, Tom Aspinall. If you want someone outside of UFC level? the obvious answer is Phil De Fries, a guy who went 2-3 in the UFC but is currently 11 title defences deep in KSW, which given KSWs status as being (alongside Oktagon in recent times) the biggest and best promotion in Europe, arguably makes him the "European" champion as well. With the only better Euro/British HWs around being in the UFC or PFL, which are world level.

French HW champ? errr..this guy called Ngannou I guess, on accounts of being the UFC champ, never actually losing his belt and now being champ in the PFL. No2 being Gane who is a top 5ish in the world guy. if you want some guy who is specifically French/Euro level? watch Ares FC or Hexagone considering they are the two big French promotions and draw talent mainly from that part of the world.

American HW champ? Jon Jones is officially the UFC champ, albeit a paper one. You want a none-UFC guy? Bailey Schoenfelder I guess as he seems to be the only current American HW champ in a US based promotion (Cage Fury), and as if to illustrate the point about levels, off the back of becoming champ in that promotion, he got a shot on Dana Whites Contender Series a few months ago and was wiped out in under 2 mins by a guy who was then awarded a UFC contract.

But I suppose if we just slap meaningless "national champion" status on these guys it suddenly changes everything?

[TMLT87]

The TKO boxing league I think is going to be good for boxing, as it should be easier platform for surface level sports fans to follow and learn about the sport. It will also be good for up and coming fighters, journey men, and top level fighters in the latter stages of their careers' etc.

And why exactly, would you assume that these are the quality of fighters that they will be able to attract? did you not notice that the majority of big fights in the sport have already been happening in Saudi for years now? both Turki and the UFC have far more financial power than Top Rank, PBC, Matchroom etc.