Who is better? Joe Joyce or Luis Ortiz

[daggum]

who was the better fighter?


Joe Joyce: notable wins: Parker, Dubois, Jennings

Luis Ortiz: notable wins: Jennings

[daggum]

ive seen some people say joyce was a bum but ortiz was some kind of top guy because he make wilder looks bad(is that hard?) make it make sense please?

[MulaKO]

Better all around boxer ; Ortiz
Better resume : Joyce

[billeau2]

How many of these spam threads do you plan to make? We know you're an idiot you don't have to show us. Joyce was exposed. He's a perfect example of why your universe of rankings is so flawed: he had a gimmick and in a bad division he got away with just frenetic activity and arm punching for quite some time.

[daggum]

Better all around boxer ; Ortiz
Better resume : Joyce

or in other words fantasy points for ortiz for not fighting as good of compeition

[billeau2]

ive seen some people say joyce was a bum but ortiz was some kind of top guy because he make wilder looks bad(is that hard?) make it make sense please?

Who said that? Sounds like something you would say. Primo Canera walked around a champion for a while. When the division got a little better and he fought and was studied a bit it soon became apparent he wasn't very good after all.

J0yce was this divisions version.. he fought in shape, and relentlessly and was able to defeat out of shape heavyweights with limited experience. When the blueprint was written he stopped winning.

Lewis Ortiz was flawless there was no blueprint he simply aged at a certain point after two spectacular fights with wild er. Fury also aged out after 2 battles with Wilder. Now here's something you may not get but if both of these guys were affected materially by these fights how do you think Wilder was affected?

Ring magazine? Can you address that point? I didn't think so

[billeau2]

or in other words fantasy points for ortiz for not fighting as good of compeition

No... You can look and see exactly when Joyce started losing fights. You can see him fall down unable to make any adjustments once his gimmick is up. It's all on tape in his fight. He could not even beat a fighter who averages six punches or so around at best, when Joyce was averaging and untold amount of punches a round. He was exposed.

[daggum]

How many of these spam threads do you plan to make? We know you're an idiot you don't have to show us. Joyce was exposed. He's a perfect example of why your universe of rankings is so flawed: he had a gimmick and in a bad division he got away with just frenetic activity and arm punching for quite some time.

how was he exposed? he beat a bunch of good fighters. at least he had a good run unlike ortiz who never did. you would never say ortiz was exposed would you even though he actually was. boogeyman boogeyman no one wants to fight him...loses to unskilled wilder then ruiz. thats what being exposed is. joyce taking on tough fighter after tough fighter and losing some is what is likely to happen. if you stay on the sidelines figthing bums like wilder and ortiz you can artificially extend your career. why is that a good thing though? you give fighters more credit for figtihng weak competiion than guys who fight tough competition. its very strange. how do you know someone is good if htey dont fight anyone good? thats what i want to know and you come back with "he has skills" lol...ok and where did those skills go when he fought the better opponents? he lost. aka exposed. aka they werent as skillful as you thought and thats the crux of this all. its a behavior disorder you have where you cant admit these guys werent that good. diagnosed by dr. daggum. ill send you the bill and no amount of crying on the internet will ever make them good and no amount of fantasy pretzel twisting will make them good

[daggum]

Who said that? Sounds like something you would say. Primo Canera walked around a champion for a while. When the division got a little better and he fought and was studied a bit it soon became apparent he wasn't very good after all.

J0yce was this divisions version.. he fought in shape, and relentlessly and was able to defeat out of shape heavyweights with limited experience. When the blueprint was written he stopped winning.

Lewis Ortiz was flawless there was no blueprint he simply aged at a certain point after two spectacular fights with wild er. Fury also aged out after 2 battles with Wilder. Now here's something you may not get but if both of these guys were affected materially by these fights how do you think Wilder was affected?

Ring ****zine? Can you address that point? I didn't think so

replace primo carnera with wilder and you are exactly right.

dubois and parker are 2 of the guys who are actually in pretty good shape. dont know what you are talking about? a guy who was out of shape was luis ortiz.

he was flawless? isnt it strange how he was flawless until he fought wilder who was not very good, then after he loses to wilder he becomes shot? circular logic in motion to prop up guys who just werent that good and its pretty clear they werent that good when you look at them vs the rest of the division. the only thing you keep saying is wilder was shot, ortiz was shot, fury was shot, arbitrarily and completely subjectively making this claim by the way. and you know what? even if wilder and ortiz were shot, they still didnt accomplish much so why are you giving them credit for fantasy wins that they dont have?

i couldt just as easily say ah well joyce as shot when he fought zhang and chisora. the fights with dubios and parker took everthing out of him. i wouldnt do that because i have dignity and i know its not true. he just lost. just like wilder and ortiz just lost.

[MulaKO]

or in other words fantasy points for ortiz for not fighting as good of compeition

Imo , Ortiz is the better all around boxer
Joyce has the better resume
No fantasy just reality