Fight Results We Need to be Honest About

[javelin_fangs]

ye but against froch and pavlik he was fighting guys who bring it 2 ya non-stop and try and break you down,thats why JT lost,doesnt mean hes not a better boxer than both those guys
whereas hopkins isnt a pressure fighter
the pavlik-taylor-hopkins trinagle is similar too the cotto-mosley-marg triangle imo

I'm just going to say it again...if Taylor really was as good of a boxer as you seem to think he is he should have had no trouble beating Pavlik and Froch. Those guys aren't boxers. So of course he would be "outboxing" them during the fight. But if he can't finish the deal then how good is he really?

I don't think he's that good. I think he's going to get his a$$ kicked by Abraham tomorrow night. It might be the worst beating of Taylor's career.

[The_Demon]

I'm just going to say it again...if Taylor really was as good of a boxer as you seem to think he is he should have had no trouble beating Pavlik and Froch. Those guys aren't boxers. So of course he would be "outboxing" them during the fight. But if he can't finish the deal then how good is he really?

I don't think he's that good. I think he's going to get his a$$ kicked by Abraham tomorrow night. It might be the worst beating of Taylor's career.

i think abraham will beat him too,but it will be more too do with his mentality/heart/staminia than his boxing skills-as all his losses have been

[javelin_fangs]

ye he knocked pavlik down in the 2nd and should of finished him off
the 2nd fight was close but taylor faded late as he always does and lost a decision
you think taylor is over-rated,thats your opinion
doesnt mean im wrong because i disagree with you bud

I don't think you're wrong because you disagree with me. I'm having a boxing debate with you. I'm not arguing with you. I'm talking boxing with a fellow boxing fan. I just disagree with you also. No problem here. Do you have one?

Look, Taylor clearly has stamina issues. I'm not going to deny that, but he also isn't as talented as people seem to think he is. He also never really makes adjustments. That's another problem. Especially when you consider the amount of talent in the Super Six.

[PittyPat]

It is possible to be "outboxing" an opponent before you get KO'd, but if you don't finish the fight well then who cares?

A lot of people may care, actually. Vargas was giving Trinidad hell before getting stopped, and likewise Cotto was giving Margarito all he had. Both have since been praised for their efforts, despite coming up short. The fact that a fighter gets stopped, should they be outboxing their opponent, says a lot about that fighter, the fight itself, and even the guy who nabbed the stoppage. Questions may be raised about the skills of the latter, especially if they were being trounced before the stoppage opportunity arose. Sure, the stoppage came, but what may have been happening before that? It can be important to think about.

In Froch's case, despite winning, he was being made to look like an idiot prior to the last few rounds. IMO the only reason he won that fight was because of Taylor's issues - not because of his own skill. So it's all good and well to say "Taylor may have been outboxing Froch, but because he got stopped who cares?", but that's a foolish way to look at it. I'm sure Froch himself would agree, in that even he knew he was in trouble before Taylor gassed out. He was getting outboxed, and it says a lot about Taylor's ability to do so. The only thing he didn't get was the win, but it was so nearly there.

That just can't be disregarded.

[javelin_fangs]

i think abraham will beat him too,but it will be more too do with his mentality/heart/staminia than his boxing skills-as all his losses have been

Ok, fine, but I'm just saying I disagree. Is that a problem for you?

I'm just saying that other than Taylor's stamina issues, I think if he was as good as his supposed "outboxing" of Hopkins would suggest then he should have been able to win a lot of the fights he lost much more easily. That's what I'm saying. Clearly you disagree and that's cool.

I know I told you to be honest with yourself because in my mind, if you think Taylor was good enough to outbox Hopkins then you must think he's one of the all-time greatest...maybe that's not the case.

[mtgawafan]

Yes. Accept Juanma lost. Be honest. The bell saved him.

[The_Demon]

Ok, fine, but I'm just saying I disagree. Is that a problem for you?

I'm just saying that other than Taylor's stamina issues, I think if he was as good as his supposed "outboxing" of Hopkins would suggest then he should have been able to win a lot of the fights he lost much more easily. That's what I'm saying. Clearly you disagree and that's cool.

I know I told you to be honest with yourself because in my mind, if you think Taylor was good enough to outbox Hopkins then you must think he's one of the all-time greatest...maybe that's not the case.

just because fighter A beat fighter B and fighter B is an all-time great that doesnt necessarily mean fighter A is an all time great aswell

[-EAGLE-]

1. You obviously hate Taylor

2. He beat Hopkins 2 times

3. We'll see what happens: if he beats Abraham; Kessler; Froch; Dirrell & Ward maybe your opinion will change.

It will be hard i know that if he beats Abraham tomorow night he will have my respect even if he loses to the other guys!

[javelin_fangs]

A lot of people may care, actually. Vargas was giving Trinidad hell before getting stopped, and likewise Cotto was giving Margarito all he had. Both have since been praised for their efforts, despite coming up short. The fact that a fighter gets stopped, should they be outboxing their opponent, says a lot about that fighter, the fight itself, and even the guy who nabbed the stoppage. Questions may be raised about the skills of the latter, especially if they were being trounced before the stoppage opportunity arose. Sure, the stoppage came, but what may have been happening before that? It can be important to think about.

In Froch's case, despite winning, he was being made to look like an idiot prior to the last few rounds. IMO the only reason he won that fight was because of Taylor's issues - not because of his own skill. So it's all good and well to say "Taylor may have been outboxing Froch, but because he got stopped who cares?", but that's a foolish way to look at it. I'm sure Froch himself would agree, in that even he knew he was in trouble before Taylor gassed out. He was getting outboxed, and it says a lot about Taylor's ability to do so. The only thing he didn't get was the win, but it was so nearly there.

That just can't be disregarded.

Fighting valiantly is obviously a thing that we should respect. Especially in Cotto's case with what we know about Margarito it's a shame that Cotto probably did what he did while Margarito had plaster of paris in his gloves.

With Vargas, he fought bravely. He even made some adjustments. Taylor, at least to my eyes, never really made any adjustment at virtually any point in his career. He's a front runner. If it ALWAYS falls apart as soon as the other guy starts to come on strong then, well, the fighter has more than just stamina issues.

Cotto and even Vargas did have some come from behind victories. Taylor doesn't have any. Great boxers are supposed to have supreme ring intelligence. Taylor just does the same thing over and over. Guys like that don't beat the Hopkins types of the world. Just my two cents.

[EDD1]

Ok then let me ask you this question; do you consider Taylor a hall of fame calibre boxer?

I'll answer my own question too; It really seems like if he were a hall of famer it'd be based entirely on the Hopkins "wins," being an American and HBO's support. He's really not that good.

well the standard for HOF fighters is high and I think a fighter as young as Taylor may still make some good fights that may put him there, Is he there now? I dont know...

Just for clarification; I dont believe he won that fight against Hopkins and I do believe that young fighters that show promise tend to get good treatment in judging.

I also dont believe he is as overrated as you may be thinking. thats all im saying.

and NO, a win over Hopkins will not be his only credit at the end of his career, hopefully this Super SIX tourney goes well for the sport and if it does I would put everyone who participated with courage in high regard.