Comments Thread For: Jai Opetaia's mandatory defense against Huseyin Cinkara set for January 8

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Hyperbole.......

So Cinkara, Hrgovic, Eifert, Scull, Mikhailovich etc are worthy contenders IYO?

GTFOH…

[kiaba360]

No, Gassiev was ranked higher than Dorticos. Gassiev had beaten him in 2018. Belief in a "lineal" title requires a mind like JRR Tolkien's.

In 2018, Gassiev beat Dorticos and lost to Usyk. The Ring magazine 2018 rankings ended with Usyk as champion and Gassiev as #2 contender behind Briedis at #1. It was announced in April 2019 that Gassiev would be moving up to HW, and I assume that's why he was dropped from the CW rankings. Meanwhile, The Ring 2019 rankings ended with no champion and Briedis/Dorticos ranked #1 and #2.

https://www.boxingscene.com/murat-gassiev-make-heavyweight-debut-june--137771

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Th...rweight--2010s

[Mammoth]

So Cinkara, Hrgovic, Eifert, Scull, Mikhailovich etc are worthy contenders IYO?

GTFOH…

Eifert didn't beat Pascal so yeah. People passed on fighting Hrgovic after the IBF ordered elimiators so what were they supposed to do there exactly?

Scull and Cinkara won their eliminators.

Mikhailovich is a middleweight. The division is garbage so I don't understand what you're expecting there either.

So, no, no issues with any of this from me.

[famicommander]

No, Gassiev was ranked higher than Dorticos. Gassiev had beaten him in 2018. Belief in a "lineal" title requires a mind like JRR Tolkien's.

Gassiev had already moved up to heavyweight and fought in that division less than a month after the Briedis-Dorticos fight. The rankings are publicly available, do a minimal amount of research before you run your mouth off like a clown.

[PlasterHands]

Gassiev had already moved up to heavyweight and fought in that division less than a month after the Briedis-Dorticos fight. The rankings are publicly available, do a minimal amount of research before you run your mouth off like a clown.

June issue of The Ring 2019, the issue before the Dorticos-Tabiti fight. To my knowledge, Tabiti was NEVER ranked #1 or #2 besides anyone but the IBF.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Eifert didn't beat Pascal so yeah. People passed on fighting Hrgovic after the IBF ordered elimiators so what were they supposed to do there exactly?

Scull and Cinkara won their eliminators.

Mikhailovich is a middleweight. The division is garbage so I don't understand what you're expecting there either.

So, no, no issues with any of this from me.

Okay man you enjoy the undisputed title getting divided or Beterbiev-Eifert rather than Beterbiev-Bivol 2.

[famicommander]

June issue of The Ring 2019, the issue before the Dorticos-Tabiti fight. To my knowledge, Tabiti was NEVER ranked #1 or #2 besides anyone but the IBF.

What the hell are you talking about? Who was talking about Tabiti? You don't seem to have any concept of the linear progression of time, let alone how lineal championships work.

[PlasterHands]

What the hell are you talking about? Who was talking about Tabiti? You don't seem to have any concept of the linear progression of time, let alone how lineal championships work.

After Usyk moved up, the IBF ordered their vacant belt to be at stake in a Dorticos-Tabiti fight. Dorticos wins, then loses to Briedis, who loses to Opetaia. Isn't that why they are claiming Opetaia is the lineal? Maybe there is a different path? And no, I don't have any idea how lineal championships work but I'm trying to find anyone that can make it make sense to me. It seems critically flawed and arbitrary.

[famicommander]

After Usyk moved up, the IBF ordered their vacant belt to be at stake in a Dorticos-Tabiti fight. Dorticos wins, then loses to Briedis, who loses to Opetaia. Isn't that why they are claiming Opetaia is the lineal? Maybe there is a different path? And no, I don't have any idea how lineal championships work but I'm trying to find anyone that can make it make sense to me. It seems critically flawed and arbitrary.

They are claiming Opetaia is lineal because he beat Briedis, and Briedis won a fight between the consensus top two fighters when he beat Dorticos.

Again, go look up the TBRB and Ring rankings from before the Dorticos-Briedis fight. Usyk and Gassiev were both already gone from cruiserweight by that point. Every independent source had Briedis and Dorticos as #1 and #2, and Briedis won. Thus, a new lineage was started to fill the vacancy created when Usyk moved up in weight.

• ESPN. #1- Yunier Dorticos, #2- Mairis Briedis, #3-Ilunga Makabu, #4- Krzysztof Glowacki, #5-Noel Mikaelian.
• Ring. #1-Mairis Briedis, #2-Yunier Dorticos, #3-Ilunga Makabu, #4- Krzysztof Glowacki, #5- Kevin Lerena.
• TBRB. #1-Mairis Briedis, #2-Yunier Dorticos, #3-Krzysztof Glowacki, #4-Ilunga Makabu, #5-Kevin Lerena.

Those were the rankings from prior to the Briedis-Dorticos fight. That's why a new lineage began with that fight, and that's why Opetaia became lineal champion by beating Briedis.

The IBF (or the WBA, WBC, WBO, IBO) have nothing to do with the lineal championship. Often times the lineal champion does have one or more of the belts, but they are not linked in any official capacity and the way you win the belts is completely different. The alphabet soup governing bodies all rank not the best fighters in the division, but the fighters who have most fulfilled whatever arbitrary conditions each of them has placed on their own titles. They don't care who the best fighter is, they care who has played their games well enough to advance through the rankings.

Independent sources (ESPN, TBRB, Ring, etc) are the ones who are ranking every fighter in the division 1-10 based purely on their results. To win the lineal championship you have to either beat the recognized lineal champion or, if it's vacant, you have to win a fight between the consensus #1 and #2 fighters in a division. There is no such thing as a cherry picked opponent, it doesn't matter who your promoter is, it doesn't matter how long it's been since you faced a mandatory challenger. Either you beat the best and became the champion or you didn't.

[PlasterHands]

They are claiming Opetaia is lineal because he beat Briedis, and Briedis won a fight between the consensus top two fighters when he beat Dorticos.

Again, go look up the TBRB and Ring rankings from before the Dorticos-Briedis fight. Usyk and Gassiev were both already gone from cruiserweight by that point. Every independent source had Briedis and Dorticos as #1 and #2, and Briedis won. Thus, a new lineage was started to fill the vacancy created when Usyk moved up in weight.

• ESPN. #1- Yunier Dorticos, #2- Mairis Briedis, #3-Ilunga Makabu, #4- Krzysztof Glowacki, #5-Noel Mikaelian.
• Ring. #1-Mairis Briedis, #2-Yunier Dorticos, #3-Ilunga Makabu, #4- Krzysztof Glowacki, #5- Kevin Lerena.
• TBRB. #1-Mairis Briedis, #2-Yunier Dorticos, #3-Krzysztof Glowacki, #4-Ilunga Makabu, #5-Kevin Lerena.

Those were the rankings from prior to the Briedis-Dorticos fight. That's why a new lineage began with that fight, and that's why Opetaia became lineal champion by beating Briedis.

The IBF (or the WBA, WBC, WBO, IBO) have nothing to do with the lineal championship. Often times the lineal champion does have one or more of the belts, but they are not linked in any official capacity and the way you win the belts is completely different. The alphabet soup governing bodies all rank not the best fighters in the division, but the fighters who have most fulfilled whatever arbitrary conditions each of them has placed on their own titles. They don't care who the best fighter is, they care who has played their games well enough to advance through the rankings.

Independent sources (ESPN, TBRB, Ring, etc) are the ones who are ranking every fighter in the division 1-10 based purely on their results. To win the lineal championship you have to either beat the recognized lineal champion or, if it's vacant, you have to win a fight between the consensus #1 and #2 fighters in a division. There is no such thing as a cherry picked opponent, it doesn't matter who your promoter is, it doesn't matter how long it's been since you faced a mandatory challenger. Either you beat the best and became the champion or you didn't.

Appreciate the details. So basically, in the case of a lineal vacancy, if the independent rankings systems can't come to a consensus on the top two and/or those top two don't fight, the lineal can sit vacant for long periods of time - such as Holyfield leaving the cruiserweight division in 1988 and not having a lineal cruiser until 17 years later, right?