Comments Thread For: 'Fighting Words' -- Revisiting Vergil Ortiz-Serhii Bohachuk and settling some misconceptions

[SteveM]

It's been said before - on a close round you can normally get closer to the correct winner of the pound by considering who would you rather be at the end of the round. Maybe one guy pressures but never lands a clean power punch but quite a few half punches and a few jabs, the other guy going backwards but steps in and lands a couple of impactful one-twos. They didn't deter the first guy but you can say they were punches in the bank - even this way is subjective but I think it's helpful to look at who inflicted more powerful punches and especially so if the fighter on the receiving end looks like he was affected - even if just slightly

[BrankoB]

Close fights and close fights are notoriously difficult to score and it is all subjective. There is nothing objective about it. First we decide which fighter we like better, or else we have our favorite fighter even before the fight. Then we adjust all arguments for and against to suit our narrative and to seem that we are being logical and impartial. Then we make a conclusion based on our subjective opinion. When the other fighter does something good, we do not see it or else minimize it or belittle it. We all operate this way whether we like it or not, whether we are aware of it or not.

[slimPickings]

Nothing that the author says is incorrect. However, it gets stale when nearly every time the benefit of a doubt is given....it is given to the fighter with the promotional backing.

Sure, sometimes overall punch counts don't reflect a round. Sometimes a knockdown is scored 10-9 rather than 10-8, sometimes a fighter will win a fight despite getting knocked down multiple times...but how often do these things happen to the fighter without promotional backing?

I don't direct this to Ortiz specifically in this fight but to the nature of boxing in general....

BINGO!!! THANKS FOR SAYING THIS!!!

Put this same fight in Bohachuk's backyard with judges from that side of the world and he likely gets the decision by perhaps the same margin!!!
Funny how the business of boxing works when you are the A side!

[PBR Streetgang]

It’s amazing how people can come to different conclusions after watching the same fight. I personally, thought Ortiz did enough to win that fight.

However, the vast majority of boxing fans didn’t see it that way. Most of them had Bohachuk winning. Which I find very interesting.

Yes, Ortiz fought off the back foot and got dropped but at no point in that fight where I saw he was in danger of getting stopped from taking too much punishment.

I didn't score it but it was very close. I thought Ortiz won more rounds but wasn't sure if it was enough to overcome two 10-8 rounds. I thought it could easily be a win for Bohachuk but expected Ortiz would win because the promotional fighter will almost always get the nod in a close fight.

Regarding the bold, I definitely agree. I remember after the first Cuadras/El Gallo fight, I thoroughly enjoyed discussing the fight with people over who they thought won the fight. As I recall, I thought El Gallo won but there were others who thought Cuadras eked it out. It was obvious we were impressed by different things going on...none of us were necessarily wrong but just different priorities for scoring.

[champion4ever]

I didn't score it but it was very close. I thought Ortiz won more rounds but wasn't sure if it was enough to overcome two 10-8 rounds. I thought it could easily be a win for Bohachuk but expected Ortiz would win because the promotional fighter will almost always get the nod in a close fight.

Regarding the bold, I definitely agree. I remember after the first Cuadras/El Gallo fight, I thoroughly enjoyed discussing the fight with people over who they thought won the fight. As I recall, I thought El Gallo won but there were others who thought Cuadras eked it out. It was obvious we were impressed by different things going on...none of us were necessarily wrong but just different priorities for scoring.

Good post!

[Cyborg Fangerloo]

Fantastic analysis! Thank you. One extra point about the "look at the other guy's face argument". That is as ****** as it could get. Skin color, what that specific person's face looks like when inflamed, what gloves are used, what areas were not covered properly with anti-friction material, and many other things can make this decision.
A pasty white dude whose skin reddens and swells easily will always look better compared to the black dude that happens to have thick and highly keratinized epithelium.
Do not ever make that argument if you want to have legitimacy in your argument.

[wileyhemi]

The rule is a knockdown makes for a 10-8 round unless "... if the balance of the round is decisively and dominantly won by Boxer B, and Boxer B has actually hurt Boxer A during this time." Ortiz didn't dominate and actually hurt Bohachuk in the rounds he was knocked down

[Sosay]

Truly a toss up or draw. No way Ortiz was losing that fight as the verdicts were already in. Not a robbery like Ruiz but Ortiz has more questions than answers. I'll chalk it up to mew weight but I don't see him beating Bud or Tim at the weight and Bud may punish him if they fight now. I still Root for Ortiz and hopefully it's him and Boots soon enough.

[IAMTHAT]

I saw good improvements after Bohachuk first loss. He’s 29, and so still has time to improve and become champion. I almost have this feeling that Bohachuk will get better in three years than Vergil