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Is Usyk P4P #1 now?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by ShoulderRoll

    Here we go.

    You do realize that winning a split decision while being heavily outweighed against Tyson Fury is more impressive than beating 40-year-old Omar Narvaez, right?

    haha keep trying.

    Narvaez defended his world title 11x in a row. but obviously you wouldn't know that, becuase you don't know LW boxing.

    You want to compare Tyson Fury's career to Donaire?
    One is going to HOF, the other is not.
    One was beaten up by an novice MMA guy, the other was not.
    Francis Ngannou was a club bouncer a few years ago.

    Keep amusing me.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by RJJ-94-02=GOAT View Post

      Just going off rankings is too specific I think.

      It’s definitely a relevant part of the discussion but I think you also have to analyse each win/performance.

      Say if you’re comparing Usyk and Crawford, Fury and Indongo were both ranked the #2 guy behind them, but they’re nowhere near the same league.
      That's true, but Crawford has several wins better than the Indongo win. Spence, Postol, Beltran, and Burns were all much better wins and Porter was at least as good. Crawford isn't just 13-0 vs the top 10, he's als 8-0 vs the top 5 (Inoue again leads that category at 9-0).

      Usyk's road warrior status matters.
      Inoue's volume matters.
      Crawford's complete lineal domination of three divisions matters.

      I don't think there's a wrong answer.

      Like I said, later I will do a deep dive for Usyk to match the ones I have already done for Inoue and Crawford below

      Terence Crawford:
      W vs #3 Ricky Burns UD 12 (fmr. WBO 130; reigning WBO 135; future WBA 140)
      W vs #7 Yuriorkis Gamboa TKO 9 (fmr. WBA/IBF 126)
      W vs #2 Raymundo Beltran UD 12 (future WBO 135)
      W vs #9 Thomas Dulorme TKO 6
      W vs #1 Viktor Postol UD 12 (reigning WBC 140)
      W vs #3 John Molina TKO 8
      W vs #9 Felix Diaz RTD 10 (Diaz ranked at 147, fight at 140)
      W vs #1 Julius Indongo KO 3 (reigning WBA/IBF 140)
      W vs #4 Jeff Horn TKO 9 (reigning WBO 147)
      W vs Amir Khan TKO 6 (fmr. WBA/IBF 140)
      W vs #10 Egidijus Kavaliauskas TKO 9
      W vs Kell Brook TKO 4 (fmr. IBF 147)
      W vs #4 Shawn Porter TKO 10 (fmr. IBF 147; fmr. WBC 147)
      W vs #9 David Avanesyan KO 6
      W vs #1 Errol Spence Jr. TKO 9 (reigning WBA/WBC/IBF 147)

      13-0 vs top 10
      8-0 vs top 5
      4-0 vs #1 (or #2 if Crawford was #1)
      10-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
      5-0 vs reigning world titlists
      3-0 in unification fights
      18-0 in world title fights
      6-0 in lineal world championship fights

      135: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBO
      140: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
      147: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed

      3 division lineal world champion
      2 division undisputed world champion
      3 division world titlist

      Naoya Inoue:
      W vs #10 Ryoichi Taguchi UD 10 (future WBA/IBF/Ring 108)
      W vs #1 Adrian Hernandez TKO 6 (fmr. and reigning WBC 108)
      W vs #1 Omar Narvaez KO 2 (fmr. WBO 112; reigning WBO 115)
      W vs #8 Kohei Kono TKO 6 (fmr. 2X WBA 112)
      W vs #5 Jamie McDonnell TKO 1 (fmr. IBF 118)
      W vs #5 Juan Carlos Payano KO 1 (fmr. WBA 118)
      W vs #6 Emmanuel Rodriguez KO 2 (reigning and future IBF 118)
      W vs #4 Nonito Donaire UD 12 (fmr. IBF 112; WBC/WBO 118; WBO/IBF 122; WBA 126; WBO 122; reigning WBA 118; future WBC 118)
      W vs #8 Jason Moloney KO 7 (future WBO 118)
      W vs #2 Nonito Donaire TKO 2 (fmr. IBF 112; WBC/WBO 118; WBO/IBF 122; WBA 126; WBO 122; WBA 118; reigning WBC 118)
      W vs #8 Paul Butler KO 11 (reigning WBO 118)
      W vs #1 Stephen Fulton TKO 8 (reigning WBC/WBO 122)
      W vs #2 Marlon Tapales KO 10 (reigning WBA/IBF 122)
      W vs #3 Luis Nery KO 6 (fmr. WBC 118; WBC 122)

      14-0 vs top 10
      9-0 vs top 5
      5-0 vs #1 (or #2 if Inoue was #1)
      14-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
      8-0 vs reigning world titlists
      6-0 in unification fights
      20-0 in world title fights (not counting WBA Regular)
      4-0 in lineal world championship fights

      108: WBC
      112: (none)
      115: WBO
      118: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
      122: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed


      2 division lineal world champion
      2 division undisputed world champion
      4 division world titlist​
      NoConcoms NoConcoms likes this.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Tony Trick-Pony

        I agree. Usyk is the king of boxing for now. What a warrior. I really thought Fury had his number in those middle rounds but man, he came back like a dream.
        I'm not sure he's coming back. It seems like his pattern is to start strong, take a few rounds off, and close out the show. And he came VERY close to doing just that in the 9th round. Respect to Fury for finishing the fight standing. He was getting starched.
        Tony Trick-Pony Tony Trick-Pony likes this.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by RJJ-94-02=GOAT View Post
          He just beat a man nearly 3 stone heavier than him to unify a second division.

          I honestly think he has to be. What a fighter.
          HWs, if they were all the same size there are a bunch of smaller fighters that would destroy these big guys.

          Id leave HW out of P4P they don't do it for me.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by famicommander View Post

            That's true, but Crawford has several wins better than the Indongo win. Spence, Postol, Beltran, and Burns were all much better wins and Porter was at least as good. Crawford isn't just 13-0 vs the top 10, he's als 8-0 vs the top 5 (Inoue again leads that category at 9-0).

            Usyk's road warrior status matters.
            Inoue's volume matters.
            Crawford's complete lineal domination of three divisions matters.

            I don't think there's a wrong answer.

            Like I said, later I will do a deep dive for Usyk to match the ones I have already done for Inoue and Crawford below

            Terence Crawford:
            W vs #3 Ricky Burns UD 12 (fmr. WBO 130; reigning WBO 135; future WBA 140)
            W vs #7 Yuriorkis Gamboa TKO 9 (fmr. WBA/IBF 126)
            W vs #2 Raymundo Beltran UD 12 (future WBO 135)
            W vs #9 Thomas Dulorme TKO 6
            W vs #1 Viktor Postol UD 12 (reigning WBC 140)
            W vs #3 John Molina TKO 8
            W vs #9 Felix Diaz RTD 10 (Diaz ranked at 147, fight at 140)
            W vs #1 Julius Indongo KO 3 (reigning WBA/IBF 140)
            W vs #4 Jeff Horn TKO 9 (reigning WBO 147)
            W vs Amir Khan TKO 6 (fmr. WBA/IBF 140)
            W vs #10 Egidijus Kavaliauskas TKO 9
            W vs Kell Brook TKO 4 (fmr. IBF 147)
            W vs #4 Shawn Porter TKO 10 (fmr. IBF 147; fmr. WBC 147)
            W vs #9 David Avanesyan KO 6
            W vs #1 Errol Spence Jr. TKO 9 (reigning WBA/WBC/IBF 147)

            13-0 vs top 10
            8-0 vs top 5
            4-0 vs #1 (or #2 if Crawford was #1)
            10-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
            5-0 vs reigning world titlists
            3-0 in unification fights
            18-0 in world title fights
            6-0 in lineal world championship fights

            135: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBO
            140: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
            147: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed

            3 division lineal world champion
            2 division undisputed world champion
            3 division world titlist

            Naoya Inoue:
            W vs #10 Ryoichi Taguchi UD 10 (future WBA/IBF/Ring 108)
            W vs #1 Adrian Hernandez TKO 6 (fmr. and reigning WBC 108)
            W vs #1 Omar Narvaez KO 2 (fmr. WBO 112; reigning WBO 115)
            W vs #8 Kohei Kono TKO 6 (fmr. 2X WBA 112)
            W vs #5 Jamie McDonnell TKO 1 (fmr. IBF 118)
            W vs #5 Juan Carlos Payano KO 1 (fmr. WBA 118)
            W vs #6 Emmanuel Rodriguez KO 2 (reigning and future IBF 118)
            W vs #4 Nonito Donaire UD 12 (fmr. IBF 112; WBC/WBO 118; WBO/IBF 122; WBA 126; WBO 122; reigning WBA 118; future WBC 118)
            W vs #8 Jason Moloney KO 7 (future WBO 118)
            W vs #2 Nonito Donaire TKO 2 (fmr. IBF 112; WBC/WBO 118; WBO/IBF 122; WBA 126; WBO 122; WBA 118; reigning WBC 118)
            W vs #8 Paul Butler KO 11 (reigning WBO 118)
            W vs #1 Stephen Fulton TKO 8 (reigning WBC/WBO 122)
            W vs #2 Marlon Tapales KO 10 (reigning WBA/IBF 122)
            W vs #3 Luis Nery KO 6 (fmr. WBC 118; WBC 122)

            14-0 vs top 10
            9-0 vs top 5
            5-0 vs #1 (or #2 if Inoue was #1)
            14-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
            8-0 vs reigning world titlists
            6-0 in unification fights
            20-0 in world title fights (not counting WBA Regular)
            4-0 in lineal world championship fights

            108: WBC
            112: (none)
            115: WBO
            118: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
            122: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed


            2 division lineal world champion
            2 division undisputed world champion
            4 division world titlist​
            Crawford’s resume has been unfairly criticised for years I think. Has consistently beat top 10 guys and done it with relative ease.

            Inoue is an absolute killer too, has tore through divisions, facing very little adversity other than Donaire 1 and Nery.

            In some ways their consistent dominance has to be measured too.

            Whilst Usyk has faced more adversity in fights I do believe he’s conquered greater challenges, fighting at significant size disadvantages and in the away corner as mentioned previously.

            I have Usyk at #1 but I do agree they’re all worthy contenders​​​​​​. We are lucky to be witnessing 3 ATG fighters. The only downside is they’re nowhere near each other in weight.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Tony Trick-Pony

              Ohl I know, man. I have never seen Fury batted around like a rag doll like that. He was so close. I really thought it was going to end right there. But Fury's recovery abilities are out of this world.
              Yep. As an Usyk supporter, I can still give the man his props. He kept fighting, even after receiving probable brain damage. It's amazing he had his wits about him to continue. Taking nothing away from Fury here; He fought MUCH better than I thought he would. I predicted a late round stoppage for Usyk. And by some miracle, that didn't happen.

              You have to admire Tyson Fury's determination.
              Tony Trick-Pony Tony Trick-Pony likes this.

              Comment


              • #27
                yes absolutely no question

                Comment


                • #28
                  He is. Bud is close, but to put them as equal, he would need to beat Canelo, which would be as impressive as usyk overcoming massive size difference in beating Fury.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by RJJ-94-02=GOAT View Post
                    He just beat a man nearly 3 stone heavier than him to unify a second division.

                    I honestly think he has to be. What a fighter.
                    I think if you put him at #1 or Inoue that is fine. I think Crawford’s lack of activity since Spence has to factor in.

                    I thought Fury would be too big. I was dead wrong. He beat a much bigger man, with a longer reach, who was in tremendous shape.

                    Usyk deserves his respect.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by famicommander View Post

                      That's true, but Crawford has several wins better than the Indongo win. Spence, Postol, Beltran, and Burns were all much better wins and Porter was at least as good. Crawford isn't just 13-0 vs the top 10, he's als 8-0 vs the top 5 (Inoue again leads that category at 9-0).

                      Usyk's road warrior status matters.
                      Inoue's volume matters.
                      Crawford's complete lineal domination of three divisions matters.

                      I don't think there's a wrong answer.

                      Like I said, later I will do a deep dive for Usyk to match the ones I have already done for Inoue and Crawford below

                      Terence Crawford:
                      W vs #3 Ricky Burns UD 12 (fmr. WBO 130; reigning WBO 135; future WBA 140)
                      W vs #7 Yuriorkis Gamboa TKO 9 (fmr. WBA/IBF 126)
                      W vs #2 Raymundo Beltran UD 12 (future WBO 135)
                      W vs #9 Thomas Dulorme TKO 6
                      W vs #1 Viktor Postol UD 12 (reigning WBC 140)
                      W vs #3 John Molina TKO 8
                      W vs #9 Felix Diaz RTD 10 (Diaz ranked at 147, fight at 140)
                      W vs #1 Julius Indongo KO 3 (reigning WBA/IBF 140)
                      W vs #4 Jeff Horn TKO 9 (reigning WBO 147)
                      W vs Amir Khan TKO 6 (fmr. WBA/IBF 140)
                      W vs #10 Egidijus Kavaliauskas TKO 9
                      W vs Kell Brook TKO 4 (fmr. IBF 147)
                      W vs #4 Shawn Porter TKO 10 (fmr. IBF 147; fmr. WBC 147)
                      W vs #9 David Avanesyan KO 6
                      W vs #1 Errol Spence Jr. TKO 9 (reigning WBA/WBC/IBF 147)

                      13-0 vs top 10
                      8-0 vs top 5
                      4-0 vs #1 (or #2 if Crawford was #1)
                      10-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
                      5-0 vs reigning world titlists
                      3-0 in unification fights
                      18-0 in world title fights
                      6-0 in lineal world championship fights

                      135: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBO
                      140: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
                      147: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed

                      3 division lineal world champion
                      2 division undisputed world champion
                      3 division world titlist

                      Naoya Inoue:
                      W vs #10 Ryoichi Taguchi UD 10 (future WBA/IBF/Ring 108)
                      W vs #1 Adrian Hernandez TKO 6 (fmr. and reigning WBC 108)
                      W vs #1 Omar Narvaez KO 2 (fmr. WBO 112; reigning WBO 115)
                      W vs #8 Kohei Kono TKO 6 (fmr. 2X WBA 112)
                      W vs #5 Jamie McDonnell TKO 1 (fmr. IBF 118)
                      W vs #5 Juan Carlos Payano KO 1 (fmr. WBA 118)
                      W vs #6 Emmanuel Rodriguez KO 2 (reigning and future IBF 118)
                      W vs #4 Nonito Donaire UD 12 (fmr. IBF 112; WBC/WBO 118; WBO/IBF 122; WBA 126; WBO 122; reigning WBA 118; future WBC 118)
                      W vs #8 Jason Moloney KO 7 (future WBO 118)
                      W vs #2 Nonito Donaire TKO 2 (fmr. IBF 112; WBC/WBO 118; WBO/IBF 122; WBA 126; WBO 122; WBA 118; reigning WBC 118)
                      W vs #8 Paul Butler KO 11 (reigning WBO 118)
                      W vs #1 Stephen Fulton TKO 8 (reigning WBC/WBO 122)
                      W vs #2 Marlon Tapales KO 10 (reigning WBA/IBF 122)
                      W vs #3 Luis Nery KO 6 (fmr. WBC 118; WBC 122)

                      14-0 vs top 10
                      9-0 vs top 5
                      5-0 vs #1 (or #2 if Inoue was #1)
                      14-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
                      8-0 vs reigning world titlists
                      6-0 in unification fights
                      20-0 in world title fights (not counting WBA Regular)
                      4-0 in lineal world championship fights

                      108: WBC
                      112: (none)
                      115: WBO
                      118: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
                      122: Lineal/TBRB, Ring Magazine, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed


                      2 division lineal world champion
                      2 division undisputed world champion
                      4 division world titlist​
                      As usual a solid, well written, fact based post and opinion.

                      Comment

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