The Top 25 Lightweights of All-Time – 11 to 25

[!! Shawn]

Either way it's still fairly obvious that he was draining himself to make the 135 lb limit.

How is the any different than Jose Luis Castillo? He WEIGHED IN at 150lb for his fight immediately preceding Floyd Mayweather, and 147 for the fight right after it.

Yet nobody is questioning Castillos status as a natural 135lber. Why is that?

[TheGreatA]

How is the any different than Jose Luis Castillo? He WEIGHED IN at 150lb for his fight immediately preceding Floyd Mayweather, and 147 for the fight right after it.

Yet nobody is questioning Castillos status as a natural 135lber. Why is that?

I wasn't questioning Mosley's status as a lightweight. He had legit lightweight fights but he didn't achieve a whole lot in them.

The fact that he had his greatest success as a welterweight, and himself says that he was at his best as a welter, convinces me into thinking that he wasn't at his very best as a lightweight.

Unlike Mosley, Castillo didn't achieve a thing above 135 and had his greatest success as a lightweight, fighting better opposition than Mosley did at the weight.

Mosley wasn't spectacular enough against the unspectacular opposition he fought as a 135 pounder to put him above the all-time great lightweights in my opinion.

[TheGreatA]

It is insistent to base ranking on record, then modify the record as you see fit, saying... oh, I thought he won this fight, or I am not giving him credit because I thought he really lost this fight. That is introducing personal bias.

So we end up with Castillo having

Julio Diaz
Juan Lazcano
Stevie Johnston

Where as Shane Mosley has

Jesse James Leija
John John Molina
Phillip Holiday
26-0 Eduardo Morales

I am not including Joel Casamayor as he moved up from 130lb for the fight

I fail to see the significant edge for Castillo.

Why would you not include Joel Casamayor? You do understand that Molina and Leija were both moving up from 130?

Johnston was far better than Holiday.

Eduardo Morales wasn't even a contender.

Cesar Bazan was a lightweight title holder whom Castillo beat. Jorge Paez was a former title holder, if faded.

[!! Shawn]

Why would you not include Joel Casamayor? You do understand that Molina and Leija were both moving up from 130?

Johnston was far better than Holiday.

Eduardo Morales wasn't even a contender.

Cesar Bazan was a lightweight title holder whom Castillo beat. Jorge Paez was a former title holder, if faded.

Molina and Jeija both hand multiple years at the weight and eventually moved up even further. 2 years at 135 in the case of Leija, and 3 years in the case of Molina. Casamayor however, had 0 fights at 135 and never went above the weight.

[crold1]

Molina and Jeija both hand multiple years at the weight and eventually moved up even further. 2 years at 135 in the case of Leija, and 3 years in the case of Molina. Casamayor however, had 0 fights at 135 and never went above the weight.

Not true. Campbell was technically at 35 as were a total four of six between Freitas and Castillo.

[TheGreatA]

Molina and Jeija both hand multiple years at the weight and eventually moved up even further. 2 years at 135 in the case of Leija, and 3 years in the case of Molina. Casamayor however, had 0 fights at 135 and never went above the weight.

In which division did Casamayor fight before taking on Jose Luis Castillo? At lightweight. He had weighed as much as 137 pounds before and in total had fought 20 times above 130 pounds prior to his fight with Castillo.

Molina's next fight after fighting Mosley took place at 130 pounds.

Leija was a top fighter at 130. He was a fringe contender at best at 135 and above.

The fact is that Casamayor was a better lightweight than Molina or Leija, neither of whom achieved anything significant as lightweights. Taking him out of Castillo's resume for being a 130 pounder makes no sense.

[Doctor_Tenma]

In which division did Casamayor fight before taking on Jose Luis Castillo? At lightweight. He had weighed as much as 137 pounds before and in total had fought 20 times above 130 pounds prior to his fight with Castillo.

Molina's next fight after fighting Mosley took place at 130 pounds.

Leija was a top fighter at 130. He was a fringe contender at best at 135 and above.

The fact is that Casamayor was a better lightweight than Molina or Leija, neither of whom achieved anything significant as lightweights. Taking him out of Castillo's resume for being a 130 pounder makes no sense.

Especially considering the fact that Casamayor could have been given the win. I thought he clearly won that fight.

[!! Shawn]

Not true. Campbell was technically at 35 as were a total four of six between Freitas and Castillo.

I thought we established with SRR that tuneup fight don't count. Weighing 133 for a tuneup does not make him a 135lber, nor does a "lighweight" fight where campbell came in at 131lb.

You are arguing semantics, both you and I know Casamayor was not campaigning as a 135lb fighter at the time he signed to move up against Castillo.

Leija and Molina were.

[!! Shawn]

Especially considering the fact that Casamayor could have been given the win. I thought he clearly won that fight.

Another reason to take him out, seeing as I agree with you, especially since Cliff feels Castillo deserves Floyd under his W column.

[!! Shawn]

In which division did Casamayor fight before taking on Jose Luis Castillo? At lightweight. He had weighed as much as 137 pounds before and in total had fought 20 times above 130 pounds prior to his fight with Castillo.

Molina's next fight after fighting Mosley took place at 130 pounds.

Leija was a top fighter at 130. He was a fringe contender at best at 135 and above.

The fact is that Casamayor was a better lightweight than Molina or Leija, neither of whom achieved anything significant as lightweights. Taking him out of Castillo's resume for being a 130 pounder makes no sense.

Incase you haven't noticed, I am arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course Casamayor was a legit win, but if Shane can't get credit for beating up a welterweight, why can Castillo get credit for getting beat up by a 130?