Comments Thread For: We All Want Canelo-Benavidez ... But Canelo Owes Us Nothing

[Oracle01]

You and I aren’t going to agree on much. You don’t like fighting. Much like Ortiz.

Not sure what that means. I hate runners but that has nothing to do with scoring a fight. You are biased.

[TheOneAboveAll]

Do you think I'm criticizing canelo because I'm biased? I don't like the boxer, but I have nothing but respect for the person, he seems to care about his people and has made a ton of money in a very hard sport, the boxer has cherry-picked his way into the upper echelon and was sold to us like the last bottle of water in the desert, and he ain't. You are pointing out his age when he fought the old men, but you're failing to mention that he was given a great opportunity to be known, he has not done that with the younger boxers like benavidez, Morell jr, etc. You're talking about his weight too, bivol wiped the floor with him because he is a better boxer, there's no equality in that aspect and let's not forget that he used to come in well over 170 pounds on fight night, and he was 21-23 yo back them, he grew into a full fledge 168/175 pounder, as soon as he noticed that the weight-in the night of the fight was in detriment of his projected public figure, he started hiding it, also, did he win against Kovalev because he was better or because the russian was too heavy? Furthermore, you can't have it both ways, either he's too small for a LHW like you suggested, or he was not good enough against bivol, or you forgot he has already beaten another old drunken champion. You can note multiple times that if you want to find asterisks in any fight you will find it, and I say you can't find it in every fight, only in the ones that have it, and canelo is the king, whether you like it or not. Why don't you answer your question? Do you think it was fair to bring khan and charlo up? I know they're happy with the money they made, but as a fan, did you have any doubt that the fight was going to end with a canelo loss? Do you think the weight has something to do with the result? And yes, he was young when he fought cotto, mosley and floyd, again all past their peak, young in age not in experience and that's what counts, a hungry healthy young man with over 40 fights in his ledger fighting for recognition, the classical pass of the baton, and finally, Lara didn't deserve to lose, canelo did because he was the one that couldn't touch the Cuban, you see he has always had problems with good boxers, Lara controlled the whole ring and make canelo look like a human fan, hitting nothing but air, then again that's your opinion and I respect that, and we have a civilized exchange, no insults or disrespectful comments. You said that I'm biased, I think you're the biased one here, because you're failing to recognize that in almost every fight canelos has fought, the least the high-profile ones, there's always a controversy, you can put an asterisk on those. I almost forgot, what does floyd vs mosley and the 20 defenses of ggg have to do with ginger fighting them? I don't see the correlation, he fought ggg almost two years too late, I remember canelo vacating the belt instead of unifying with ggg. Something that bug me is that canelo didn't fight for the IBF belt back at 160, do you know why? They have a rule that every fighter needs to weigh in the next day and can't be over 10 pounds. Be safe

Okay, that's a long reply, but I will try to hit each general point without making my own reply too obnoxiously long-winded. With regard to bias, I think EVERYONE's opinions are biased - to varying degrees. I do think you buy into the narrative that Canelo is some kind of master manipulator/scammer whose success is more a result of slick management and smoke and mirrors than actual daring and in-ring greatness. Having said that, I agree that there are plenty of things to criticize about him. I have rooted for him and against him throughout his career. As an unapologetic GGG fan, I do agree that Canelo ducked GGG for a time and I think he got two gift decisions against him, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that Canelo has shown true greatness and balls throughout his entire career. Even competing with GGG as well as he did alone proves his greatness to me. I mentioned Canelo's young age against Mayweather, Mosley and Cotto because many fans act like he waited those guys out, but how much earlier could he have fought them? Look at the stars of the sport today and count how many who had the audacity/confidence to challenge legends at the same age. Only Devin Haney comes to mind.

With regard to weight, i mention Khan and Charlo because Canelo critics are very quick to call him a weight bully for beating up on those 'smaller' guys but they conveniently glaze over the fact that Canelo was greatly physically overmatched by Dmitry Bivol and most of the 168lbs fighters he faced.

We can agree to disagree about the Lara fight. I've watched that fight at least 5 times and I score a new round for Canelo every time. Lara had his moments but nobody can convince me that he outfought Canelo over the course of the fight. Again, we all have our style preferences in this sport. I like fighters.

I can respect your pov, but I disagree with a lot of it. Canelo is not my favorite fighter and I don't think he is a Top 10 ATG or anything like it, but, from my view (way up here), based on accomplishments, he's very possibly the best overall fighter of his era.

[BodyBagz]

Germell ''At least he didn't KMTFO'' Charlo
Ryder
GGGeezer 3
Biv
Plant
BHS
Yildy
C Smith
Kov
Jacobs
Fielding

I'd match this run with ANY FIGHTERS run.

Let's see them
No need to mock Nelo
Just post a better 10 fight run.
Simple.

[Calibone1]

That is one the most awful takes by the article writer ever. Canelo must've paid him 10 golden tamales plus cash.
Canelo turned from a bad mother****er to a sad motherducker.

[BodyBagz]

That is one the most awful takes by the article writer ever. Canelo must've paid him 10 golden tamales plus cash.
Canelo turned from a bad mother****er to a sad motherducker.

Name the fighter who has a better 10 fight run ?(and name those 10 guys he fought)

Guys you won't be able to name (off the top of my head) -
Benny
Beter
Biv
Bud
Fury

[garfios]

Okay, that's a long reply, but I will try to hit each general point without making my own reply too obnoxiously long-winded. With regard to bias, I think EVERYONE's opinions are biased - to varying degrees. I do think you buy into the narrative that Canelo is some kind of master manipulator/scammer whose success is more a result of slick management and smoke and mirrors than actual daring and in-ring greatness. Having said that, I agree that there are plenty of things to criticize about him. I have rooted for him and against him throughout his career. As an unapologetic GGG fan, I do agree that Canelo ducked GGG for a time and I think he got two gift decisions against him, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that Canelo has shown true greatness and balls throughout his entire career. Even competing with GGG as well as he did alone proves his greatness to me. I mentioned Canelo's young age against Mayweather, Mosley and Cotto because many fans act like he waited those guys out, but how much earlier could he have fought them? Look at the stars of the sport today and count how many who had the audacity/confidence to challenge legends at the same age. Only Devin Haney comes to mind.

With regard to weight, i mention Khan and Charlo because Canelo critics are very quick to call him a weight bully for beating up on those 'smaller' guys but they conveniently glaze over the fact that Canelo was greatly physically overmatched by Dmitry Bivol and most of the 168lbs fighters he faced.

We can agree to disagree about the Lara fight. I've watched that fight at least 5 times and I score a new round for Canelo every time. Lara had his moments but nobody can convince me that he outfought Canelo over the course of the fight. Again, we all have our style preferences in this sport. I like fighters.

I can respect your pov, but I disagree with a lot of it. Canelo is not my favorite fighter and I don't think he is a Top 10 ATG or anything like it, but, from my view (way up here), based on accomplishments, he's very possibly the best overall fighter of his era.

Have to be a long reply if I want to touch all your points. We have different opinions, nothing out of the ordinary when more than one person are analyzing one subject. Doesn't mean you're completely right, nor myself. He has make such a big deal with weights that almost every fan thinks he's a weight bully, one thing for certain he can compete at 168/175 with no noticeable disadvantage, even bivol offered to fight a 168 and he said no, why? We may never know. At the end you and I will keep thinking the way we do and that's fine. Be safe and thanks for sharing.

[crimsonfalcon07]

I don't think that's technically true. He acquired the WBA 'regular' belt on 27/06/2021 but that's not synonymous with becoming mandatory. Do you remember the conversation you and I had here about the WBA two tier system?

Clearly the WBA have been ordering more consolidation bouts and now have only three 'regular' belt holders (of which Morrell is one) but they've not actually ordered the mandatory yet.

Neither has the WBC. FACTS are that Morrell has had title that entitles him to either a mandatory shot or elevation to full champion for over a year before Benavidez ever acquired his own version. Neither of them has been ordered as mandatory. Neither has, as far as we know, so much as petitioned for their shot either. But if Benavidez has a mandatory claim, there's no mistaking that Morrell has the same claim but a year longer. And he was elevated in January 2021, and has defended his spot several times.

And the discussion we had was about previous WBA rulesets. That was historical, and applied to Tank. Morrell gained his belt under the current rulesets. He didn't aim for the secondary belt. He was originally interim champ and WBA chose to elevate him themselves. He did his part to gain a title shot under the WBA rules. And he did so before Benavidez. The last time a WBA 168 super champ defended the title against a mandatory, it was Callum Smith defending against Canelo.

[dan-b]

Neither has the WBC. FACTS are that Morrell has had title that entitles him to either a mandatory shot or elevation to full champion for over a year before Benavidez ever acquired his own version. Neither of them has been ordered as mandatory. Neither has, as far as we know, so much as petitioned for their shot either. But if Benavidez has a mandatory claim, there's no mistaking that Morrell has the same claim but a year longer. And he was elevated in January 2021, and has defended his spot several times.

And the discussion we had was about previous WBA rulesets. That was historical, and applied to Tank. Morrell gained his belt under the current rulesets. He didn't aim for the secondary belt. He was originally interim champ and WBA chose to elevate him themselves. He did his part to gain a title shot under the WBA rules. And he did so before Benavidez. The last time a WBA 168 super champ defended the title against a mandatory, it was Callum Smith defending against Canelo.

My post wasn't intended to be confrontational, I'm just interested in this stuff. I'm not sure what you're saying is technically correct. The WBA title reduction plan was announced in August 2021 but that didn't make all of their 'regular' titleholders mandatory by default. As we both agreed, prior to this, regular/super consolidation was rarely enforced.

Sulaiman seems to have committed to calling the mandatory next month but has fudged it by refusing to commit to a time frame for its satisfaction. This implies they are next in the rotation, with the WBA or IBF next. The WBA are unlikely to press the issue but it will be interesting to see how long the IBF is prepared to wait. Williams Scull has been ranked #1 since he won a final eliminator against Evgeny Shvedenko on 2/7/2022. Nearly two years ago.

IBF 168.png

[crimsonfalcon07]

My post wasn't intended to be confrontational, I'm just interested in this stuff. I'm not sure what you're saying is technically correct. The WBA title reduction plan was announced in August 2021 but that didn't make all of their 'regular' titleholders mandatory by default. As we both agreed, prior to this, regular/super consolidation was rarely enforced.

Sulaiman seems to have committed to calling the mandatory next month but has fudged it by refusing to commit to a time frame for its satisfaction. This implies they are next in the rotation, with the WBA or IBF next. The WBA are unlikely to press the issue but it will be interesting to see how long the IBF is prepared to wait. Williams Scull has been ranked #1 since he won a final eliminator against Evgeny Shvedenko on 2/7/2022. Nearly two years ago.

IBF 168.png

Except the WBA hasn't been defended since Smith v Canelo, while Canelo defended the WBC already against Yildirim. Meanwhile the WBO was satisfied by Ryder, and apparently also by GGG according to the president of the WBO. IBF was Plant v Canelo. So WBA is the longest outstanding, followed by IBF, unless the IBF considered the GGG fight a mandatory defense. But WBA doesn't have anything in the rules like the WBO to allow their Super champ to jump the line, so they can't have been satisfied yet by any of the fights, and Morrell has been in the mandatory position the whole time.

And David Benavidez didn't earn his interim belt until May 2022. All of Morrell's claims start in 2021.

Also going to say that this whole situation really highlights how worthless the sanctioning organizations are. The whole notion of mandatory defenses is irrelevant if the organizations won't order the champions to fight the guys that earn a mandatory shot. What with the IBF letting Spence coast on one defense for 4 years then stripping Bud after a few months, Canelo with every organization, WBC letting Charlo hang onto his belt forever without being declared champ in recess, Tyson Fury not getting a mandatory, etc, it's pretty clear that they won't even follow their own rules, and it's consequently worthless for fighters to try to advance in their rankings, especially since they won't rank the champions for other organizations.