Comments Thread For: Zhang: Fury Looked At Ngannou Like MMA Fighter He Could Walk Over; Beats Usyk If He Trains Hard

[TMLT87]

Fury s got physical advantages but resume is what decides if your favourite, not size.
Usyk beat josh x2, whilst fury beat wilder. But wilder lost so bad to parker.
Id say usy k is favourite even if fury is bigger. Josh was bigger than usyk and stronger.

AJ was bigger than Usyk but Fury is quite a bit bigger still and on top of that hes more skilled and mobile than Joshua was and better at using his size.

[Claude Palle]

What?

The combination of skills and size and the specific matchup are what decides if your favorite. Not triangle theories.

The oddsmakers take a lot of things in to consideration. They are just trying to win the vig. Ideally, they want the money split down the middle. Way less risk for them. Sure they can win if a lot is bet on one guy and the other wins but the reverse can happen as well. Popularity plays a role. When the Dallas Cowboys were America's team, the odds were always adjusted for that factor alone. That's my soapbox for today.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Fury s got physical advantages but resume is what decides if your favourite, not size.
Usyk beat josh x2, whilst fury beat wilder. But wilder lost so bad to parker.
Id say usy k is favourite even if fury is bigger. Josh was bigger than usyk and stronger.

Tyson Fury is not the best Athlete in this match up, people need to understand this 'Fury may be a Super Heavyweight, but I am almost 100% sure that he is not the best athlete. In terms of overall athleticism, all the measurements of overall fitness, and strength'.

Does Tyson Fury, have a higher VO2 max than Oleksandr Uysk? No.

Does Tyson Fury have a greater power to weight ratio than Oleksandr Usyk? No.

If Tyson Fury and Oleksandr Uysk both competed against one another, in a side by side evaluation of their athletic abilities, strength capabilities and overall fitness abilities 'Tyson Fury in my opinion, does not beat Oleksandr Uysk in any single event'.

Anthony Joshua before he turned professional competed in a competition called 'Superstars'. This was a competition which consisted of various Olympic Athletes all competing against one another, in a vast array of athletic and fitness disciplines.

The events consisted of all the main fundamental track and field events 'Which are essentially a test of pure athleticism'. The sprint events, the Middle Distance Running events, the jump events, and all the throwing events.

There was also swimming events, cycling events and the traditional gym based exercise assessments 'Strength endurance via calisthenics'.

Anthony Joshua won the entire event, at the conclusion of the competition 'Anthony Joshua proved that he was the best overall athlete. Joshua competed against Olympic triathletes, middle distance athletes, Olympic Swimmers, Olympic High Jumpers.

If Tyson Fury was to compete in a competition of this nature vs Oleksandr Uysk 'Tyson Fury does not win a single event. Tyson Fury is not a better athlete than Oleksandr Usyk'.

So this notion, that Tyson Fury has all the physical advantages in this match is complete nonsense 'Yes, Fury is a super Heavyweight. But that does not make him automatically the best athlete'.

When David Haye fought Wladimir Kiltschko at his absolute peak 'Not only was he fighting a super Heavyweight. He as also fighting against pound for pound a great athlete in terms of overall athleticism and power'.

I don't think Tyson Fury, is that type of super Heavyweight 'Fury is a 270 + pound Heavyweight, who can fight in all area';s. But he is a clumsy heavyweight'.

Note: If people believe that being a super Heavyweight, just automatically gives Fury the win in this match up? All you hardcore Fury fans, best be very concerned with recent reports regarding Fury's training camp. Fury from what I have seen, has gone into overdrive in training camp 'Fury's entire team are in a state of panic, as a reaction to his performance vs Francis Ngannou'.

If Tyson Fury thinks that after almost 9 years, he can suddenly decide to increase his training intensity by a considerable amount 'And still maintain a high level of performance at elite level in boxing, vs another elite level athlete. In that sort of situation, there is a very high likely-hood that Fury will be over trained and decrease the effectiveness of the so called advantages that his hardcore fans and certain experts believe he has'.

We have seen this time and time again, with fighters who are similar to Tyson Fury 'Fury for years has not demonstrated the same kind of discipline that Joshua and Uysk have with their training'.

Joshua and Uysk live at intensity, they exist in discipline 'And this lifestyle has accumulated over the years. 1000's upon 1000's of hours, over the years this has accumulated within their beings 'On a fundamental physiological level'.

Tyson Fury has not been that type fighter or athlete, at any point in his career.

Tyson Fury was in his usual fight condition vs Francis Ngannou he was 277 pounds fully clothed.

If Tyson Fury does not train, he would be close to 400 pounds. Could Fury of been in better condition vs Ngannou? Most likely. But the fact are, Fury was in pretty much his usual fight condition.

That is why, there is so much speculation and panic surrounding this fight vs Usyk 'And how Tyson Fury prepares for it'.

From my observation, Fury's team don't really strategically know which way to go in this fight. Do we continue with are usual training and solidify Fury's conditioning? Or do we attempt to bring back shades of the Riddler? Do we bring back a version of Tyson Fury, that walked this earth close to 9 years ago? I.E Tyson Fury who was in and around 250 + pounds fight night condition.

Me personally, I believe Fury should of just continued on with his usual training and solidified his conditioning from the Ngannou fight 'Fury if he was to train in this manner, would most likely be a solid refined 270 to high 260 pounds Super Heavyweight'.

But if Fury in a over reaction to his performance vs Ngannou 'Decides to get too far away from those type of tactics and training. I believe that preparation will potentially back fire'.

There is a reason as to why Fury went from being 250 pounds vs Wilder I, Wallin. To then coming into his rematch with Deontay Wilder at over 270 pounds.

If Tyson Fury in a over reaction to his performance vs Francis Ngannou 'Abandons his recent training methodologies of the past few year, I believe that can back fire'.

So maybe as a positive, this delay and postponement of the fight? Tyson Fury has always been a good reader of a fight 'Maybe Fury from this point until May 18th will alter things with his training' etc.

[turnedup]

It's not about if Fury trains hard, it's if Fury is still able to perform somewhere near the level of his peak.

Look, let's be honest here, if it's Fury from the Wlad fight or the Wilder 2 fight, there's really nothing Usyk will be able to do with him.

That Fury has footspeed as fast as Usyk and equal stamina, Usyk would not be able to stop Fury from closing him down and mauling him like a rag doll and all the fancy little amateur style tricks won't matter if he can't create any distance.

But I don't know if Fury still is going to be able to get his feet moving as quickly as that.

If he's slowed down and isn't able to catch up with usyk then he's going to have to try and rely on boxing Usyk at range and then it's a closer fight.

In my opinion Fury is shot, however I think there's a possibility that so is Usyk, so I see this becoming a messy, ugly fight and I'm not sure who's hand is raised at the end but my gut tells me fury will just about sc**** it despite looking terrible in some rounds.

5 clear Usyk rounds, 5 close fury rounds and 2 rounds fury just shades, and everyone will cry robbery because even though Usyk won less rounds they were clearer.

That's my pick.

Foot speed in the wlad and wilder fights? he wasn’t very mobile in against either fighter. Klitschko fight was two punches and smother and hug to disrupt klitschko. With wilder it was sit on his punches. So foot speed? You could have used other fights as examples just those two fights don’t make sense. Since he was trying to sit on his punches during every second of those fights. Also, Fury is 35 and a lot of miles on those legs at such fluctuations of weight, let’s look at other athletes his size and how their body holds up. Cartilage, tendons, etc all shave down. It’s why Andy Lee switched fury up to be more of a hitter, his legs aren’t the same and legs go on fighters.

[PRINCEKOOL]

It's not about if Fury trains hard, it's if Fury is still able to perform somewhere near the level of his peak.

Look, let's be honest here, if it's Fury from the Wlad fight or the Wilder 2 fight, there's really nothing Usyk will be able to do with him.

That Fury has footspeed as fast as Usyk and equal stamina, Usyk would not be able to stop Fury from closing him down and mauling him like a rag doll and all the fancy little amateur style tricks won't matter if he can't create any distance.

But I don't know if Fury still is going to be able to get his feet moving as quickly as that.

If he's slowed down and isn't able to catch up with usyk then he's going to have to try and rely on boxing Usyk at range and then it's a closer fight.

In my opinion Fury is shot, however I think there's a possibility that so is Usyk, so I see this becoming a messy, ugly fight and I'm not sure who's hand is raised at the end but my gut tells me fury will just about sc**** it despite looking terrible in some rounds.

5 clear Usyk rounds, 5 close fury rounds and 2 rounds fury just shades, and everyone will cry robbery because even though Usyk won less rounds they were clearer.

That's my pick.

No he does not, Tyson Fury at no point in his career 'Has Fury ever had better movement, speed or athleticism than Oleksandr Usyk'. That statement you have just made, is complete and utter cliche media narrative trash. That you have bought into and think his real. It is not real mate'.

You know when the media says things like 'Fury can move like a middle weight'. There is actually no evidence for this, that statement is not actual based on objective reality. It is a made up narrative, perpetuated by Fury's hardcore fans'.

People especially hardcore Fury fans, need to stop it with this behaviour 'Because it is not going to work anymore. I am advising all of Fury's hardcore fans RIGHT NOW, to actually make sure actually what you are saying is valid'.

Mike Tyson had extreme speed as a Heavyweight, comparable speed to a light Heavyweight possibly even certain Middle Weights at his peak ',Muhammad Ali was a Heavyweight who was also similar'.

Tyson Fury has never been on that level. If he has been ? 'Then somebody show me the fights right now in this thread? There are no fights out there, were Fury is operating on that level'.

I will give Tyson Fury credit, he is to a extent a competent Athlete 'Good speed, and solid enough athleticism. But for me, he has never been elite in any of those area's'.

The fight has been postponed by 3 months 'So Fury's hardcore fans, have now got three months to GET REAL'

Because this fight vs Olaksandr Uysk is not a mythical match up guys 'IT IS A REAL fight against another elite level fighter skill for skill. A fighter who is vastly more experienced then Tyson Fury at fighting at elite level in the sport of boxing'.

Tyson Fury is biggest fighter Usyk will have fought, but skill for skill he is not the best fighter. 'Usyk has fought and beaten better fighters skill for skill at Cruiserweight, and potentially in some area's at Heavyweight. Oleksandr Uysk is a Olympic Champion. Lets get this right? Usyk is not going to be intimidated by Fury's skill level'.

Tyson Fury is a super heavyweight, but he is not the best athlete in this match up 'In terms of overall athleticism, and fitness'.

Note: I personally, have always believed that his match up between Fury and Usyk 'Could potentially be a very similar fight to both Joshua vs Uysk I & II'.

It does seem like Fury, is going to come into this fight 'And try and out box Usyk. To me, that is what Fury's team are working towards'.

Fury is innately a clumsy fighter, he is not technically fundamentally correct as Joshua 'So If he just bulls forward vs Usyk. He is going to be getting hit. So he could potentially be losing rounds'.

And I believe Fury's team, do understand this 'That is why I believe, they are going to try and fight Uysk the same way Anthony Joshua did'.

There was nothing wrong with Anthony Joshua's tactics vs Usyk 'Especially in the second fight. Joshua quite simply just got beat'.

The question is? Is Tyson Fury, a better all around boxer now than that version of Joshua? Fury's recent performances do not suggest that he is for sure.

It is a close fight etc.

[TMLT87]

No he does not, Tyson Fury at no point in his career 'Has Fury ever had better movement, speed or athleticism than Oleksandr Usyk'. That statement you have just made, is complete and utter cliche media narrative trash. That you have bought into and think his real. It is not real mate'.

You know when the media says things like 'Fury can move like a middle weight'. There is actually no evidence for this, that statement is not actual based on objective reality. It is a made up narrative, perpetuated by Fury's hardcore fans'.

People especially hardcore Fury fans, need to stop it with this behaviour 'Because it is not going to work anymore. I am advising all of Fury's hardcore fans RIGHT NOW, to actually make sure actually what you are saying is valid'.

Mike Tyson had extreme speed as a Heavyweight, comparable speed to a light Heavyweight possibly even certain Middle Weights at his peak ',Muhammad Ali was a Heavyweight who was also similar'.

Tyson Fury has never been on that level. If he has been ? 'Then somebody show me the fights right now in this thread? There are no fights out there, were Fury is operating on that level'.

I will give Tyson Fury credit, he is to a extent a competent Athlete 'Good speed, and solid enough athleticism. But for me, he has never been elite in any of those area's'.

The fight has been postponed by 3 months 'So Fury's hardcore fans, have now got three months to GET REAL'

Because this fight vs Olaksandr Uysk is not a mythical match up guys 'IT IS A REAL fight against another elite level fighter skill for skill. A fighter who is vastly more experienced then Tyson Fury at fighting at elite level in the sport of boxing'.

Tyson Fury is biggest fighter Usyk will have fought, but skill for skill he is not the best fighter he has fought. 'Usyk has fought and beaten better fighters skill for skill at Cruiserweight, and potentially in some area's at Heavyweight. Oleksandr Uysk is a Olympic Champion. Lets get this right? Usyk is not going to be intimidated by Fury's skill level'.

Tyson Fury is a super heavyweight, but he is not the best athlete in this match up 'In terms of overall athleticism, and fitness'.

Note: I personally, have always believed that his match up between Fury and Usyk 'Could potentially be a very similar fight to both Joshua vs Uysk I & II'.

It does seem like Fury, is going to come into this fight 'And try and out box Usyk. To me, that is what Fury's team are working towards'.

Fury is innately a clumsy fighter, he is not technically fundamentally correct as Joshua 'So If he just bulls forward vs Usyk. He is going to be getting hit. So he could potentially be losing rounds'.

And I believe Fury's team, do understand this 'That is why I believe, they are going to try and fight Uysk the same way Anthony Joshua did'.

There was nothing wrong with Anthony Joshua's tactics vs Usyk 'Especially in the second fight. Joshua quite simply just got beat'.

The question is? Is Tyson Fury, a better all around boxer now than that version of Joshua? Fury's recent performances do not suggest that he is for sure.

It is a close fight etc.

Athleticism has to be measured against size to some degree though. One guy is 6'3 220ish and the other is 6'9 and has been fighting at 270+ in recent times. Furys athleticism for his size is more exceptional than Usyks athleticism for basically a cruiserweight, and with that size comes a strength and power advantage too.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Athleticism has to be measured against size to some degree though. One guy is 6'3 220ish and the other is 6'9 and has been fighting at 270+ in recent times. Furys athleticism for his size is more exceptional than Usyks athleticism for basically a cruiserweight, and with that size comes a strength and power advantage too.

There are athletes who are bigger than Fury in other sports 'In terms of pure athleticism, they are better athletes'. The actual measurements of athleticism, Fury is not that type of athlete. We have seen this during his fights.

This notion that Fury is that kind of athlete? Is nonsense, Fury's athleticism is overrated 'He is at a good level athlete, but it is nothing exceptional in my opinion'.

What Fury is innately, is a great fighter 'Great innate fighter, combined with good athletic abilities and his dimensions.With a innate understanding of Violence, for me that is why Fury has achieved in the sport'.

You are throwing numbers at me, so Fury is 270 + pounds 'But if he was as solid as Usyk, he would be more like mid-250 pounds'.

I understand what you are trying to say, 'But understand what I am saying? Fury is not pound for pound the level athlete that Usyk is'.

When David Haye fought Wladimir Kiltschko, Haye was competing against a absolute peak Kiltschko 'Who pound for pound, was a comparable athlete to Haye in terms of pure overall athleticism'.

Usyk from what I can see, is not taking on that same kind of challenge vs Tyson Fury 'In this fight'.

Note: It is not Fury's current athleticism, skill level which will intimidate Usyk.

Oleksandr Uysk has fought and beaten Anthony Joshua twice 'Joshua is a proven great athlete both inside and outside of a boxing ring. Joshua is the most competent pure boxer within the Heavyweight division outside of both Usyk and Fury. Joshua hits with more punching power than Fury and he is also a solid super Heavyweight'.

People keep mentioning 270 pounds 'But it is looking like Fury, and his team want to move away from that type of conditioning for this fight'. In my previous posts, I have personally outlined why I think that would may be a tactical mistake.

Fury's team are not sure which way they are going to go for this fight 'I don't think the entire team is in agreement, on how to prepare for Usyk'. Before the Ngannou fight, people in Fury's team were certain that Fury could beat Uysk ether by bulling him or out boxing him. I have watched many interviews, and this was the narrative'.

After the Ngannou fight? That narrative and certainty regarding Fury's ability became very conflicted.

I think Fury, thus far believes he needs to fight Uysk in a more straight up boxing match. And to do that at the level needed to beat Usyk, his conditioning may have to alter significantly'. There is a reason why Fury, moved away from that style of fighting and conditioning.

And now after years, moving forward with a different combat philosophy they want to go back? I don't think those are the right tactics.

Nobody really knows for sure what type of Tyson Fury will turn up on fight night 'But how people are speaking about Fury currently. It does seem like Fury and his team, are not going to be coming with that type of fight'.

I would imagine right now, there could be possibility that Fury could switch up preparation tactics between now and May 18th 'Fury has always been a good reader of a fight. And if he is to win this fight, it will be that attribute which gives him the win'.

Tyson Fury has got to chose the correct way to prepare for Uysk 'Otherwise this fight may be potentially lost in training camp. Regardless of which Fury turns up it will still be a very close fight. But the importance of Fury getting fight preparations right, may be that difference that wins him the fight'.

Me personally I don't think they are using the right tactics, that is why this fight postponement 'May be good for Fury' etc.

[pollywog]

^^^so many words, so little to say.

[TMLT87]

There are athletes who are bigger than Fury in other sports 'In terms of pure athleticism, they are better athletes'. The actual measurements of athleticism, Fury is not that type of athlete. We have seen this during his fights.

This notion that Fury is that kind of athlete? Is nonsense, Fury's athleticism is overrated 'He is at a good level athlete, but it is nothing exceptional in my opinion'.

What Fury is innately, is a great fighter 'Great innate fighter, combined with good athletic abilities and his dimensions.With a innate understanding of Violence, for me that is why Fury has achieved in the sport'.

You are throwing numbers at me, so Fury is 270 + pounds 'But if he was as solid as Usyk, he would be more like mid-250 pounds'.

I understand what you are trying to say, 'But understand what I am saying? Fury is not pound for pound the level athlete that Usyk is'.

When David Haye fought Wladimir Kiltschko, Haye was competing against a absolute peak Kiltschko 'Who pound for pound, was a comparable athlete to Haye in terms of pure overall athleticism'.

Usyk from what I can see, is not taking on that same kind of challenge vs Tyson Fury 'In this fight'.

Note: It is not Fury's current athleticism, skill level which will intimidate Usyk.

Oleksandr Uysk has fought and beaten Anthony Joshua twice 'Joshua is a proven great athlete both inside and outside of a boxing ring. Joshua is the most competent pure boxer within the Heavyweight division outside of both Usyk and Fury. Joshua hits with more punching power than Fury and he is also a solid super Heavyweight'.

People keep mentioning 270 pounds 'But it is looking like Fury, and his team want to move away from that type of conditioning for this fight'. In my previous posts, I have personally outlined why I think that would may be a tactical mistake.

Fury's team are not sure which way they are going to go for this fight 'I don't think the entire team is in agreement, on how to prepare for Usyk'. Before the Ngannou fight, people in Fury's team were certain that Fury could beat Uysk ether by bulling him or out boxing him. I have watched many interviews, and this was the narrative'.

After the Ngannou fight? That narrative and certainty regarding Fury's ability became very conflicted.

I think Fury, thus far believes he needs to fight Uysk in a more straight up boxing match. And to do that at the level needed to beat Usyk, his conditioning may have to alter significantly'. There is a reason why Fury, moved away from that style of fighting and conditioning.

And now after years, moving forward with a different combat philosophy they want to go back? I don't think those are the right tactics.

Nobody really knows for sure what type of Tyson Fury will turn up on fight night 'But how people are speaking about Fury currently. It does seem like Fury and his team, are not going to be coming with that type of fight'.

I would imagine right now, there could be possibility that Fury could switch up preparation tactics between now and May 18th 'Fury has always been a good reader of a fight. And if he is to win this fight, it will be that attribute which gives him the win'.

Tyson Fury has got to chose the correct way to prepare for Uysk 'Otherwise this fight may be potentially lost in training camp. Regardless of which Fury turns up it will still be a very close fight. But the importance of Fury getting fight preparations right, may be that difference that wins him the fight'.

Me personally I don't think they are using the right tactics, that is why this fight postponement 'May be good for Fury' etc.

Yeah there are bigger guys than Fury in other sports, and many are more athletic too, but in boxing it is not common at all to see a guy that big move the way he does and have the boxing ability he has. I dont like the guy very much and think hes overrated, but he is definitely a bit exceptional in that regard. The trade off I guess is he doesnt hit as hard as a guy that big probably should.

I dont think much about Fury/Usyk can be deduced from the Ngannou fight. Ngannou is 270 himself with almost the same reach as Fury. Hes obviously extremely strong with dangerous power, and hes probably a better athlete than either Fury or Usyk too. Fury/Usyk is a very different type of fight.

[Roadblock]

Look at the pictures fury himself has posted, dude is definitely roided to the gills for this fight.

Why is everybody that trains hard roided lol, Fury will come in the best shape he has come in he knows he cant take Ursk lightly he has got to be in great shape and after last time out his pride is also bruised.