Comments Thread For: Alexandro Santiago-Junto Nakatani Tops February 24 Title Fight Tripleheader In Tokyo

[Elheath]

this is not completely true. there was no ducking at 115. don't blame any of top5. blame hbo and tough luck. hbo wanted to make some fights bigger (gonzalez - inoue and gonzalez - estrada2) but it backfired.
inoue injured his hand vs. narvaez and had to take a year off. meanwhile wbo final eliminator ended in a draw (warlito - carmona). wbo slapped inoue with 2 mandatories back to back. really bad luck. then inoue injured his hand vs. carmona too. while he sorted out his mandatories the others were fighting each other for more money and all 4 lost. then inoue outgrew the division.
gonzalez could have fought inoue when he moved up from flyweight instead of cuadras. blame that on hbo alone. but cuadras fight was pretty good too. wbc pressed chocolatito to fight a rematch with cuadras (they would postpone a mandatory defense) or and overdue mandatory rungvisai. if gonzalez decided to fight inoue in 2017, it wouldn't be a unification = less money for him. that is not a duck at all. then roman lost against mandatory, then a voluntary rematch, then rungvisai fought a mandatory (estrada) and then inoue was gone.

if somebody is dumb enough to mention inoue skipping flyweight to duck everybody remember that naoya was a non entity for them before he defeated narvaez. he did the right thing. he set the stage but a lot of bad luck ensued.

please don't blame these fighters. they were all great. the only duck one of them made at the time was estrada refusing to fight ioka. ioka was his mandatory AND they were #1 and #2 at flyweight. a new lineal champion would be crowned. that was a great fight on the table. but estrada was not prepared (he had an injury earlier) and fought a tune up against a nobody and then permanently moved up to chase money fights (not a bad thing per se).

Which actually brings back the topic to Nakatani, but Ioka's ducking of Nakatani was so blatantly ducking to the point that even as a Japanese boxing fan I gotta admit Ioka was a laughing stock.

[ShoulderRoll]

And their resumes show that they all decided to dance who they thought was easier to defeat than Inoue.

Hey, let me ask you a question...Beltles Boxer A was offered a title bout from champion Boxer B. He rejected it and chose to fight another champion Boxer C for his belt instead. Boxer A won the belt from Boxer C and became the champion. Champion Boxer B was at the match and immediately offered a unification match. Champion boxer A rejected the offer for unification from Champion boxer B, and instead decided to fight beltless Boxer D who had lost to boxer C two years ago, whom boxer A just defeated to get the belt.

Did boxer A duck boxer B?

My answer is if you are claiming someone is a ducker then show me their resumes. That lets me know if they are facing tough competition or not.

[Elheath]

And I actually appreciate what Ioka accomplished...but vacating a belt he had to dodge a mandatory then immediately fighting for another belt IN THE SAME DIVISION is just...come on.

They sold it as a destined rematch, to hide the fact that he didn't want any part of Nakatani.

[Elheath]

My answer is if you are claiming someone is a ducker then show me their resumes. That lets me know if they are facing tough competition or not.

Well then in this case, which guy chose to face the tougher competition?

31 yrs old Omar Narvaez was the universal number one rated 115 guy in 2014. Per Ring Magazine ranking from 2011 to 2013 he was annual number one. For reference Cuadras was number two and SSR was three in 2013. At the end of 2014, when Inoue who was a 108 champion at the time was searching for a good opponent in 112 to fight, he was instead offered a chance to fight the number one ranked 115 champion Narvaez on his first fight in the weight class. He jumped to the chance and absolutely demolished Narvaez. Due to his win, he ended 2014 ranked 1st, Cuadras 2nd, SSR 3rd and Narvaez 4th.

The 2015 annual ranking still had Inoue number one, Cuadras number two, and SSR number three. Chocolatito went up to 115 from 112 in 2016 and was offered a fight with number one ranked Inoue for his first fight at 115. He chose to fight Cuadras instead and won with a UD. He ended up being ranked second behind Inoue for the 2016 ranking, with Cuadras third, SSR fourth.

[ShoulderRoll]

Well then in this case, which guy chose to face the tougher competition?

31 yrs old Omar Narvaez was the universal number one rated 115 guy in 2014. Per Ring Magazine ranking from 2011 to 2013 he was annual number one. For reference Cuadras was number two and SSR was three in 2013. At the end of 2014, when Inoue who was a 108 champion at the time was searching for a good opponent in 112 to fight, he was instead offered a chance to fight the number one ranked 115 champion Narvaez on his first fight in the weight class. He jumped to the chance and absolutely demolished Narvaez. Due to his win, he ended 2014 ranked 1st, Cuadras 2nd, SSR 3rd and Narvaez 4th.

The 2015 annual ranking still had Inoue number one, Cuadras number two, and SSR number three. Chocolatito went up to 115 from 112 in 2016 and was offered a fight with number one ranked Inoue for his first fight at 115. He chose to fight Cuadras instead and won with a UD. He ended up being ranked second behind Inoue for the 2016 ranking, with Cuadras third, SSR fourth.

Narvaez was 39 years old, not 31. Why did you feel the need to lie about that?

[Elheath]

Narvaez was 39 years old, not 31. Why did you feel the need to lie about that?

Wow that is a bad error I made, that I fully take blame for and can't fault you on calling me a liar so my bad. I was flipping through too many wikipedia pages on my phone tabs while calculating the ages of the guys and typing at the same time and got the ages totally messed up. By the way upon verifying 31 years old was the age of SSR when Estrada fought him for the first time in early 2018 and lost, and SSR became the official top ranked guy for annual 2018 (he turned 32 in December to be more precise, but all his fights in 2018 were when he was 31). I had initially started writing about Estrada first title bout at 115 as well then deleted it just to keep the comparison simpler within my already more than long enough posts.

So let me ask that again fixing my errors, which one do you think took a tougher competition available?

39 yrs old Omar Narvaez, despite being over the hill was still undefeated in super fly and was considered the universal number one rated 115 guy in 2014. Per Ring Magazine ranking from 2011 to 2013 he was ranked as annual number one 115. At the end of 2014 when Inoue, who was a 108 champion at the time was searching for a belt holder in 112 who would accept a fight with him, he was instead offered an opportunity to fight Narvaez for his belt at 115. Inoue accepted it and demolished old Narvaez in R2 of his first fight at 115. Unfortunately that was the last belt holder Inoue was given a chance to fight at 115.
The 2015 annual Ring ranking had Inoue ranked number one for second year in a row. Chocolatito went up to 115 from 112 in 2016 and was given the offer to fight number one ranked Inoue for his belt. He refused it stating that Inoue was not known enough, and chose to fight Cuadras instead and won with a UD for his first fight at 115.

[ShoulderRoll]

Wow that is a bad error I made, that I fully take blame for and can't fault you on calling me a liar so my bad. I was flipping through too many wikipedia pages on my phone tabs while calculating the ages of the guys and typing at the same time and got the ages totally messed up. By the way upon verifying 31 years old was the age of SSR when Estrada fought him for the first time in early 2018 and lost, and SSR became the official top ranked guy for annual 2018 (he turned 32 in December to be more precise, but all his fights in 2018 were when he was 31). I had initially started writing about Estrada first title bout at 115 as well then deleted it just to keep the comparison simpler within my already more than long enough posts.

So let me ask that again fixing my errors, which one do you think took a tougher competition available?

39 yrs old Omar Narvaez, despite being over the hill was still undefeated in super fly and was considered the universal number one rated 115 guy in 2014. Per Ring Magazine ranking from 2011 to 2013 he was ranked as annual number one 115. At the end of 2014 when Inoue, who was a 108 champion at the time was searching for a belt holder in 112 who would accept a fight with him, he was instead offered an opportunity to fight Narvaez for his belt at 115. Inoue accepted it and demolished old Narvaez in R2 of his first fight at 115. Unfortunately that was the last belt holder Inoue was given a chance to fight at 115.
The 2015 annual Ring ranking had Inoue ranked number one for second year in a row. Chocolatito went up to 115 from 112 in 2016 and was given the offer to fight number one ranked Inoue for his belt. He refused it stating that Inoue was not known enough, and chose to fight Cuadras instead and won with a UD for his first fight at 115.

The fact that Narvaez was practically 40 says it all, doesn’t it? He and Nonito Donaire were Inoue’s best wins in my book, until he beat Fulton this year.