Comments Thread For: Daily Bread Mailbag: Canelo-Charlo, Mayweather-Crawford, Stevenson-Martin, More

[Clegg]

Calzaghe doesn't belong on any Mount Rushmore. He had 2 great results v BHop (although I scored it a draw) & Kessler, but his overall record is wretched. He ran from Glen Johnson like a rabbit from a fox, he refused to fight the top US fighters &, having been gifted a decision in a fight he lost v Robin Reid he adamantly refused to fight a rematch. Yes he made a staggering 75 defences of his WBO title, so ****ing what? If Calzaghe's an ATG then I'm a unicorn.

Calzaghe was set to challenge Collins for the title, Collins retired instead. Calzaghe was offered a fight with Hopkins after Hopkins beat Tito. Calzaghe accepted. But the fight fell apart because of a promotional dispute on Hopkins' end. How are you confused enough to think Calzaghe ducked them?

Calzaghe offered Reid a rematch, with a bigger purse than he got for the first fight. Reid declined. Are you misinformed or just making things up?

[allen23]

Once again your emotional bias shines through. You mention froch, Benn but no eubank Sr and why would that be? As calzaghe beat him of course. And how could you call that fight a draw apart from the early knockdown it was a beat down.

You have misunderstood my point. I wasn't listing my top 10 British fighters. I was listing fighters who actively sought out the best opponents in the world. I could've added Watt, Hatton & Khan who all made a point of going after the best, albeit with mixed results. I didn't include CES because his career was v similar to Joe's with dozens of defences of his WBO title against uninspiring opposition. I included Benn because of the epic, ultimately tragic, fight with McClelland. Believe me, I wasn't seeking to downplay Joe's win over a severely weight-weakened, ageing CES.

As a predominantly racist sport they asked all black fighters in the maywesther gym who would win a mythical match up between calzaghe and andre ward. Most of the old timers said calzaghe which shows just how good he was.

Don't agree it is a racist sport. There are a lot of awful things about boxing but one of the positives is that in many gyms you see White, Black & Asian lads training & sparring together. If you have documentation of this alleged poll could you share it?

Listen I realise that Joe didn't fight the very best for long periods but like always there was boxing politics playing a part in that. He did previously try to fight Collins, bhop etc but the timing was off. Regardless his style would hsve given any fighter from any era fits. That slap attack style might not be the purists cup of tea but he was effective and overwhelmed people with a ridiculous gas tank.

As for the racism in boxing. I don't think any article or document can pinpoint the nature. If you read breadmans mails he had alluded to it on occasions. An example being if you have a fighter like loma or inoue black fighter generally dismiss their skills and in many caseswont give full credit on a win. Youtube is littered with vidoes from gyms across america showing this. Sure theres a comaradere in gyms with all fighters but like inlife theres a hierarchy to it. Also genetically black people have in most cases physical advantages, faster twitch muscles etc so there is a superiority complex there but thats not to say there csnt be exceptions to the rule it's just one advantage black fighters have.

P.s the only pro boxer I ever met was indeed Joe calzaghe!! Ten years ago at the full moon party in koh phangan Thailand
He was fat as **** pissed out of his head - super respectful when i approached him for a drunken hug lol so i kinda have an emotional bias with anything calzaghe

[1Eriugenus]

Allen23, fair play, I owe you a bit of an apology. I unearthed this from the time;

But the former WBC champion from Runcorn is looking towards the bigger matches and none would suit him better than a return with Calzaghe, whom he ran close last year in a challenge for the Welshman's belt. But with Reid linked to BBC and Calzaghe contracted to Sky, politics could make it a non-starter.
And it would appear that BBC would have to adjust the budget to get Reid a crack at one of the more senior world titles.
Reid said: "These fights every two or three months are keeping me busy, but that is about it. "I want to go ahead with the bigger fights.
"But I'm not going to go in there with Calzaghe unless the money is right. I've got to be realistic."

So, Joe didn't duck Reid, the promoters just """"ed up. I think I relied on Joe's comment that 'I don't do rematches'

As for Joe being your favourite, yeah, fair play to you. My men growing up were Joe Frazier, then Duran & then SRL. The British fighters I most admired were Honeyghan & Andries. I loved dem warriors. I didn't exactly, particularly like Naseem. I just remember seeing him fight for a European title & I dropped my beer, & the spliff fell out of my mouth & I said 'dear God, this is the best British fighter I've ever seen. He will be a legend'.

[1Eriugenus]

Allen23,

Finally, I would be very wary of comments like

'genetically black people have in most cases physical advantages, faster twitch muscles etc so there is a superiority complex there but thats not to say there csnt be exceptions to the rule it's just one advantage black fighters have'.

There is no evidence at all that there are separate 'races' within the human race. In fact, all evidence suggests the contrary. Black people excel at sport because, historically, it has been the only avenue not closed to them. If Duane knocks Robert cold there is no way the HR Dept can say that actually Robert was the better candidate!

[allen23]

Allen23,

Finally, I would be very wary of comments like

'genetically black people have in most cases physical advantages, faster twitch muscles etc so there is a superiority complex there but thats not to say there csnt be exceptions to the rule it's just one advantage black fighters have'.

There is no evidence at all that there are separate 'races' within the human race. In fact, all evidence suggests the contrary. Black people excel at sport because, historically, it has been the only avenue not closed to them. If Duane knocks Robert cold there is no way the HR Dept can say that actually Robert was the better candidate!

Believe it or not there is a wealth of evidence on this matter. They have done extensive studies on fast/slow twitch muscles and its conclusive that on average black people have faster twitch muscles than any other race. We may all be humans but there are fundamental differences based on your genetic history.
do you think it's a coincidence that the final of the 100m is littered with black men. I wonder what the % of running backs in the nfl that are black? Its not going to be beneficial in all sports but ones that focus on power, strength and speed there lies an advantage. I agree in America sport is an outlet for black people to thrive but that doesn't explain the results. There are multiple factors but considering the evolution of black people and the oppression/slavery they endured it points to the fact their bodies have developed differently.
there are other cultures that have similar traits. Pacific islanders like somoans are also genetically freaks there sports outlet is mainly rugby.

*there will never be a drug free Olympic 100m champion who is white, and that's no coincidence that's genetic superiority

[1Eriugenus]

I'm sceptical but, fair play, I'll have to do some research. It is important to remember that, say 300,000 years ago, we are ALL Black Africans. As people begin to travel around the globe we evolve lighter skin, straighter hair etc & it is clear why we'd need to do that. What you're saying is that folks outside Africa also evolved slower twitch muscles. How would that help? I'm not an evolutionary biologist, however, so I guess it could be somehow linked to the need to develop lighter skin & straighter hair. In the end we're all human beings, apart from Estate Agents, obviously.

[Oregonian]

I like how u alluded to rjj being passed his prime yet leave out bhop who got better with age and was still an elite fighter at that time. Calzaghe destroyed him worse than anyone in his whole career. Calzaghes activity alone was enough to beat 99% of fighters he was a force of nature

———
I did not “allude” to RJ being past his prime. I stated it categorically. Only Brits like you believe that was a great win for Calzaghe. It was not.

I’m a huge Calzaghe fan and was rooting for him to beat BHop and was stoked that he won. Calzaghe is a great fighter and one my favorite fighters but Had Calzaghe fought Roy before 2004, he would have not lasted 8 rounds.

[1Eriugenus]

I don't think that fight could've happened. My recollection, without checking BoxRec, is that RJJ held the title at 160 for only about a year, held the title at 168 for only about a year, then settled at 175 where he was comfortable. There was only a sliver of time when the peak RJJ was available at 168 to have fought Joe &, I think, RJJ had a lot of other fish to fry. When I criticised Joe's record I never mentioned the peak RJJ. I don't think that fight was ever on the table.

[allen23]

———
I did not “allude” to RJ being past his prime. I stated it categorically. Only Brits like you believe that was a great win for Calzaghe. It was not.

I’m a huge Calzaghe fan and was rooting for him to beat BHop and was stoked that he won. Calzaghe is a great fighter and one my favorite fighters but Had Calzaghe fought Roy before 2004, he would have not lasted 8 rounds.

I don't think anybody beats prime rjj, i think he would struggle against prime roy and James Toneey but apart from that he's game for anyone - including andre ward or canelo.
it's hard to say why it's the case with genetics - I remember seeing a documentary on why Jamaica produces all the best sprinters in the world, and a little village in kenya which produced over 50% of the long distance olympic medalists from the country. Also i think for a sport like boxing growing up in a poor social background is the sort of breeding ground that will produce champions. Marvin haglers silk sheets comment still rings true today. Some kids grow up sleeping in silk sheets so how can they ever hsve the hunger to go through the grind the same way a poor child in philly will sleeping on a dirty mattress with no real opportunities other than a boxing gym.
lots of variables of course, but again you don't see a white man with the slow twitch movement of roy Jones, or that can glide in the air like Michael Jordan

Nice to have an honest, productive conversation on this site normally it's knuckleheads spewing hate to back their fighters

[Progrssive_Jedi]

If you look at names Canelo beats he looks like ATG, but if you know how many of those he aged or should have lost to and that is were things get shaken. He bets a Demi is he’s Kov, fought no one that is really top dog at 168, needing trickery to get David stripped and ducking him, and his only legit 160 wins were against guys he dragged up.