Punch count: Why loma-haney was one of the worst robberies

[jmrf4435]

https://********/vj6U6caJIJw
This guy did a good breakdown. Not sure why he didn't do the other rounds though

This is it right here

[The Big Dunn]

Just for the discussion and my curiosity. You also believe that Loma did nothing in the first half of the fight and showed up only in 2nd half? How?

Not in an over exaggerated way. More couldve been done. The volume wasnt really there.

[MikeyG]

Not in an over exaggerated way. More couldve been done. The volume wasnt really there.

Maybe. I am just curious because I haven't seen anyone criticise Haney for a slow start even though punch stats were basically even in four of the six rounds (according to Compubox, some "unofficial" videos had the gap wider) and the narrative for some seems to be that Loma automatically lost early rounds because of his slow start.

[The Big Dunn]

Maybe. I am just curious because I haven't seen anyone criticise Haney for a slow start even though punch stats were basically even in four of the six rounds (according to Compubox, some "unofficial" videos had the gap wider) and the narrative for some seems to be that Loma automatically lost early rounds because of his slow start.

Ok that us fair. The fight was close. 7-5 either way.
Posters are likely discussing the rounds based on who they wanted to win.

If the poster picked Haney, perhaps they are too critical of Loma and vice versa.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Ok going by this Loma probably avoided some of the body shots. And some were even blocked by elbows. The grazing shots are also a little difficult for me to assess. Is that effective punching? The low to high impact is interesting criterion but also subjective.

Grazing punches are rarely effective unless they're on the top of the head. Those can really mess up the fighter's equilibrium. Very little of the force transfers, since the vectors are all wrong. If you want to try this yourself, you can try punching something straight on, compared to standing at a diagonal to the target with the same punch. You'll feel the difference immediately. They may still get scored by judges, but they're going to have relatively negligible effect in terms of damage.

Maybe. I am just curious because I haven't seen anyone criticise Haney for a slow start even though punch stats were basically even in four of the six rounds (according to Compubox, some "unofficial" videos had the gap wider) and the narrative for some seems to be that Loma automatically lost early rounds because of his slow start.

Loma is known for starting slow while he does what Ward likes to call "downloading." Both the fights he lost before he threw relatively few punches in the first 6 rounds before coming on very strong by the end of the fight. All of the fights he lost he was very dominant in many the later rounds, and likely would have won if we were still doing 14/15 rounders, possibly by stoppage.

He averages 55 punches per round, mostly in later rounds. Usually he's in the 20 range for early rounds.

Haney, in contrast, averages 44 punches per round, and is known for being economical and accurate. So he was within his norm. Loma actually started pretty strong for his recent fights though.

I can't fathom why he thinks it's appropriate to take his foot off the gas these days though, especially in relatively close undisputed fights. I think he should have won, and might have needed a knockout to win regardless, but it's still frustrating to me that he just gives fights away like this. If he had fought like a champion in Rd 12, there would be even less reason to call it a win for Haney. He might have even gotten the stoppage in 11 if he'd gone up a gear. Makes me wonder if he's lost a step. Based on how much he got hit to the body, I think he'll probably get stopped by Tank Davis now. I want to see Shakur v Tank though. Best defense vs best offense is always interesting. I favor Shakur on that one, but Tank has one heck of an X-factor.

[BaguMka]

Grazing punches are rarely effective unless they're on the top of the head. Those can really mess up the fighter's equilibrium. Very little of the force transfers, since the vectors are all wrong. If you want to try this yourself, you can try punching something straight on, compared to standing at a diagonal to the target with the same punch. You'll feel the difference immediately. They may still get scored by judges, but they're going to have relatively negligible effect in terms of damage.



Loma is known for starting slow while he does what Ward likes to call "downloading." Both the fights he lost before he threw relatively few punches in the first 6 rounds before coming on very strong by the end of the fight. All of the fights he lost he was very dominant in many the later rounds, and likely would have won if we were still doing 14/15 rounders, possibly by stoppage.

He averages 55 punches per round, mostly in later rounds. Usually he's in the 20 range for early rounds.

Haney, in contrast, averages 44 punches per round, and is known for being economical and accurate. So he was within his norm. Loma actually started pretty strong for his recent fights though.

I can't fathom why he thinks it's appropriate to take his foot off the gas these days though, especially in relatively close undisputed fights. I think he should have won, and might have needed a knockout to win regardless, but it's still frustrating to me that he just gives fights away like this. If he had fought like a champion in Rd 12, there would be even less reason to call it a win for Haney. He might have even gotten the stoppage in 11 if he'd gone up a gear. Makes me wonder if he's lost a step. Based on how much he got hit to the body, I think he'll probably get stopped by Tank Davis now. I want to see Shakur v Tank though. Best defense vs best offense is always interesting. I favor Shakur on that one, but Tank has one heck of an X-factor.

Very good post. Unfortunately Loma aging and at lightweight speed is the biggest attribute especially for Loma. If you watched his last 5-6 fights you clearly see that he is slowing down and now he just dont have enough gas in tank to be super active all 12rds like he used to be.
BUt even now at 35yo being clearly past prime he is outboxing younger faster stronger top level opponents due to his boxing IQ. He is special fighter no doub about it

[GhostofDempsey]

You know it's a robbery when a lot of Haney fans are calling it a robbery. It was actually encouraging to see some honest thoughts on the outcome from fighters, fans and analysts who were rooting for Haney and still thought he lost.

[Superbee]

My boy Russ said it best ...

https://twitter.com/RussAnber/status/1661247088821141508

[MikeyG]

Loma is known for starting slow while he does what Ward likes to call "downloading." Both the fights he lost before he threw relatively few punches in the first 6 rounds before coming on very strong by the end of the fight. All of the fights he lost he was very dominant in many the later rounds, and likely would have won if we were still doing 14/15 rounders, possibly by stoppage.

He averages 55 punches per round, mostly in later rounds. Usually he's in the 20 range for early rounds.

Haney, in contrast, averages 44 punches per round, and is known for being economical and accurate. So he was within his norm. Loma actually started pretty strong for his recent fights though.

Yes I am aware of this about Lomachenko, but it shouldn't be automatically hold against him in every fight. Especially in Haney fight, where it wasn't even a case. Giving Haney something like 5 rounds from the first six doesn't sit with me well while reasoning it with "Loma had a slow start as always". That is false narrative to me.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Yes I am aware of this about Lomachenko, but it shouldn't be automatically hold against him in every fight. Especially in Haney fight, where it wasn't even a case. Giving Haney something like 5 rounds from the first six doesn't sit with me well while reasoning it with "Loma had a slow start as always". That is false narrative to me.

Yeah, I don't think he did start slow. In fact, I, and most people, gave him at least 2 of the first 4 rounds. Only diehard Haney fans gave Haney the first 5 or 6. He just gets a lot of that talk because that's why he has lost fights in the past. Based on how that went, I suspect he would have needed a stoppage or a couple knockdowns. Many of the analysts said during the fight that he had started fairly quickly, and most gave him at least 7 rounds.