Does Canelo Alvarez beat Ayala Jr at 154?

[Malvado]

really? he was before my time since i was born in 2000 and havent really seen his fights. im looking at his wiki and obviously yea he didnt really beat any names, but im reading that he was a very talented boxer

Same here, I was born close to the 2000s so I didn't really witness what he did.

recent documentary of Tony Ayala Jr by "Rich the Fight Historian" covers:
-His upbringing, him along with his brothers Sammie and Paulie, were abused. At 10 years old his father made him spar 18 years olds that brutalized him, constantly got whipped with jumping ropes, and was ******ed as a 9-year-old child by a close family friend.

-He ruptured the stomach of a woman at a cinema, ****d a schoolteacher, and sexually assaulted five different women.

-At 15 years old he sparred Pepino Cuevas at his prime and dominated him, Cuevas quitting in the second-round, had praised Tony's talent. At the time he defeated Angel Espada X3, Billy Backus and had streak of consecutive wins until he met Thomas Hearns.

-(Wasn't in the documentary) His biggest win is Robbie Epps, who pulled the upset against an undefeated Dwight Davidson (28-0) who was going to fight Marvin Hagler. Tony finished him in the first round at 19 years old.
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He displayed a lot of talent at 20 years old and at 36-40 years old despite being in jail for more than a decade, so who knows how good he would have been at his prime. Being that said I don't think he has any noteworthy achievements to suggest that he would have beaten Canelo.

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[joseph5620]

Canelo wouldn't have fought him.

[garfios]

Same here, I was born close to the 2000s so I didn't really witness what he did.

recent documentary of Tony Ayala Jr by "Rich the Fight Historian" covers:
-His upbringing, him along with his brothers Sammie and Paulie, were abused. At 10 years old his father made fight spar 18 years olds that brutalized him, constantly got whipped with jumping ropes, and was ******ed as a 9-year-old child by a close family friend.

-He ruptured the stomach of a woman at a cinema, ****d a schoolteacher, and sexually assaulted five different women.

-At 15 years old he sparred Pepino Cuevas at his prime and dominated him, Cuevas quitting in the second-round, had praised Tony's talent. At the time he defeated Angel Espada X3, Billy Backus and had streak of consecutive wins until he met Thomas Hearns.

-(Wasn't in the documentary) His biggest win is Robbie Epps, who pulled the upset against an undefeated Dwight Davidson (28-0) who was going to fight Marvin Hagler. Tony finished him in the first round at 19 years old.
mQWuqfl.gif

He displayed a lot of talent at 20 years old and at 36-40 years old despite being in jail for more than a decade, so who knows how good he would have been at his prime. Being that said I don't think he has any noteworthy achievements to suggest that he would have beaten Canelo.

PjHOGNL.gif

19 tears old Ayala vs 20 years old canelo, I'll put my money on el torito.

[Malvado]

19 tears old Ayala vs 20 years old canelo, I'll put my money on el torito.

I don't disagree but canelo competed at 154 until he was 26 years old.

[garfios]

I don't disagree but canelo competed at 154 until he was 26 years old.

I don't see the point. I'm just saying 19 years old Ayala, who was 154 pounds then, would mop the floor with 21 years old canelo. And yes, canelo left "the 155" division around 26 yo, but he never had to weigh in on the same day of the fight, as Ayala did for his pre-jail career. Actually, if instead of Hatton, was Ayala fighting for the JMW belt against canelo, no belt for ginger.

[Malvado]

I don't see the point. I'm just saying 19 years old Ayala, who was 154 pounds then, would mop the floor with 21 years old canelo. And yes, canelo left "the 155" division around 26 yo, but he never had to weigh in on the same day of the fight, as Ayala did for his pre-jail career. Actually, if instead of Hatton, was Ayala fighting for the JMW belt against canelo, no belt for ginger.

Well I thought that Canelo still competing at light middleweight at that point of his career would be factor in his favor over Ayala.

Looking deeper, Tony Ayala Jr was such a waste of talent, he was already favored over all the other contenders from 154 excluding Duran such as Tadashi Mihara, Ayub Kalule, Charlie Weir and Davey Moore.

-At 15 years old, he sparred Pepino Cuevas, he made him quit in the second round even though he was already in his prime being the WBA Champion before losing to hearns. A teenager got the better of a welterweight champion and pound for pound one of the hardest hitters.

-At 16 years old he won the National Golden Gloves defeating Lamont Kirkland who debuted immediately after, Kirkland was a 100% KO artist at light heavyweight. A fighter who was three weight classes above with a deep amateur.

-At 19 years old he overwhelmed a top contender in Robbie Epps inside a round, who beat an undefeated Dwight Davidson (28-0) who was going to fight Marvin Hagler. He was also quite big for the weight class standing at 6'2.

-The ring megazine in 1982 had Tony rated at Number #2 at Jr Middleweight.

1.Wilfred Benitez
2.Tony Ayala Jr
3.Davey Moore
4.Carlos Herrera
5.Ayub Kalule
6.Charlie Weir
7.Gary Guiden
8.Roberto Duran
9.Clint Jackson
10.Mike McCallum

Now I am not so sure if a 23-24 year old Canelo could had easily beat him, he would have been more difficult than Miguel Cotto who past his prime.

[garfios]

Well I thought that Canelo still competing at light middleweight at that point of his career would be factor on why you favored him.

Looking deeper, Tony Ayala Jr was such a waste of talent, he was already favored over all the other contenders from 154 excluding Duran such as Tadashi Mihara, Ayub Kalule, Charlie Weir and Davey Moore.

-At 15 years old, he sparred Pepino Cuevas, he made him quit in the second round even though he was already in his prime being the WBA Champion before losing to hearns. A teenager got the better of a welterweight champion and pound for pound one of the hardest hitters.

-At 16 years old he won the National Golden Gloves defeating Lamont Kirkland who debuted immediately after, Kirkland was a 100% KO artist at light heavyweight. A fighter who was three weight classes above with a deep amateur.

-At 19 years old he overwhelmed a top contender in Robbie Epps inside a round, who beat an undefeated Dwight Davidson (28-0) who was going to fight Marvin Hagler. He was also quite big for the weight class standing at 6'2.

-The ring megazine in 1982 had rated Number #2 at Jr Middleweight.

1.Wilfred Benitez
2.Tony Ayala Jr
3.Davey Moore
4.Carlos Herrera
5.Ayub Kalule
6.Charlie Weir
7.Gary Guiden
8.Roberto Duran
9.Clint Jackson
10.Mike McCallum

Now I am not so sure if a 23-24 year old Canelo could had easily beat him, he would have been more difficult than Miguel Cotto who past his prime.

At 154 canelo never faced a machine in his prime like Ayala, actually, he has never face a fighter like that at any weight. He has fought Mayweather, Lara and bivol, all technical fighters, you can say ggg, but he wasn't in his prime.

[BodyBagz]

What version of Nelo are we using ?
The Nelo that lost to May was the beginning of his rise.

The Nelo that fought GGG the 2nd time > Ayala via late stoppage.

[The D3vil]

Ayala beats his ass at 154.

Canelo's peak is from GGGII-Bivol

He wasn't even all that great at 154, just watch the Lara & Trout fights.

[-Kev-]

Who was his best win?