Mayweather vs Marquez Registers 1 Million Pay-Per-View Buys

[WESS]

I don't think it is about hurt feelings. It is about Money.

You guys (the entire boxing community) anointed Floyd as the #1 p4p a while back, right? Was that based on his work at WW, or was that based on his career body of work up to that point? He didn't appoint himself, the boxing pundits did.

So now, he has been at WW for four years, minus a two year layoff. He fought the guys who were champions when he got to WW. Since then, he has been on a pure paper chase. Just like the other top p4p guys. Not making excuses. Just acknowledging what the reality is.

In the past four years, Manny has fought one elite fighter. And arguaby lost that fight. Bernard Hopkins had a couple of MW's jump two divisions up to LHW. He has the SMW champ move up to LHW, and lost. Manny had oscar larios move up two divisions. And Larios was coming off a wickedly brutal JO at 122 to fight Manny at 130. Right? Floyd isn't exactly the only one cherry-picking.


1998:


Oscar De La Hoya
Roy Jones Jr.
Evander Holyfield
Felix Trinidad
Mark Johnson
Shane Mosley
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Naseem Hamed
Johnny Tapia

1999:

Roy Jones Jr.
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Felix Trinidad
Oscar De La Hoya
Shane Mosley
Mark Johnson
Ricardo Lopez
Erik Morales
Bernard Hopkins
Stevie Johnston

2000:


Shane Mosley
Felix Trinidad
Roy Jones Jr.
Oscar De La Hoya
Diego Corrales
Naseem Hamed
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Lennox Lewis
Erik Morales
Bernard Hopkins


2001:

Shane Mosley
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones Jr.
Marco Antonio Barrera
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Felix Trinidad
Oscar De La Hoya
Ricardo Lopez
Kostya Tszyu
Erik Morales


2002:

Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones Jr.
Marco Antonio Barrera
Vernon Forrest
Oscar De La Hoya
Kostya Tszyu
Erik Morales
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Lennox Lewis
Shane Mosley


2003:

Roy Jones Jr.
Bernard Hopkins
Shane Mosley
Oscar De La Hoya
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Manny Pacquiao
Kostya Tszyu
Erik Morales
James Toney
Antonio Tarver

2004:

Bernard Hopkins
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Kostya Tszyu
Ronald (Winky) Wright
Manny Pacquiao
Juan Manuel Marquez
Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Glen Johnson
Antonio Tarver

2005:

Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Ronald (Winky) Wright
Marco Antonio Barrera
Ricky Hatton
Manny Pacquiao
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Rafael Marquez
Jose Luis Castillo
Zab Judah


2006:

Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Manny Pacquiao
Ronald (Winky) Wright
Jermain Taylor
Bernard Hopkins
Marco Antonio Barrera
Rafael Marquez
Ricky Hatton
Jose Luis Castillo
Joe Calzaghe

2007:

Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Manny Pacquiao
Juan Manuel Marquez
Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe
Israel Vazquez
Miguel Angel Cotto
Ricky Hatton
Ronald (Winky) Wright
Rafael Marquez



This is just to illustrate that the boxing media was consistently sending him the message that "Floyd, you are the best, or one of the best."

yea BUT its Floyd Mayweather......................................

[Lacrimosa]

Dominicano Soy!, WESS, Al Haymon, Ok guys, you persuaded me - i`ll rewatch the fight soon

[Dave Rado]

I don't think it is about hurt feelings. It is about Money.

The way Floyd would maximise both his earnings and his legacy is by fighting Mosley followed by the Pac/Cotto winner followed by Williams, in that order.

Everyone other than his nuthuggers regards Mosley as the biggest threat to him currently of those who fight in his own weight class, and Williams as the biggest threat to him if Williams can still make 147. Mosley is the #1 ranked fighter in his weight class and is available now. Beating Mosley would make Mayweather The Ring champion and the lineal Welterweight champion, which from a legacy point of view is what it's all about. If he won the lineal title and then fought the Pac-Cotto winner, that fight for all the Welterweight marbles would be the biggest fight since Hagler-Leonard and would make far more money than if he twiddles his thumbs and waits to fight the Pac-Cotto winner. In addition, Mayweather-Mosley now would be a much bigger fight than Mayweather-Marquez was. So he would make far more money fighting Mosley first and then the Pac-Cotto winner than he would from any other scenario.

Plus, if Pac beats Cotto, Pac-Mayweather would be very hard to make, and would be quite likely to end up like Jones-Hopkins did in 2001, because neither fighter is willing to accept 50/50. If Pac beats Cotto, Pac might well end up fighting Mosley after that, and Floyd would then have blown not just one megafight, but two.

Even if the Pac-Mayweather fight does get made, it is likely to take several months to negotiate - Pac's fights nearly always do. In the meantime, instead of twiddling his thumbs, he could be fighting Mosley.

So no, it's not about money at all, it's about hurt feelings and not being bothered about fighting the best fighters in his own weight class - which is what you have to do in order to create a great legacy.

You guys (the entire boxing community) anointed Floyd as the #1 p4p a while back, right? ...

This is just to illustrate that the boxing media was consistently sending him the message that "Floyd, you are the best, or one of the best."

Based on talent, not achievement. P4P is not a weight class, it's a hypothetical "what if scenario". In the great scheme of things, it's meaningless. All that matters in the long run is fighting the best fighters in your weight class and testing yourself against the best available opposition. That's what great champions do. Floyd hasn't really done that since the Castillo rematch.

He fought the guys who were champions when he got to WW. Since then, he has been on a pure paper chase.

He won his lineal title against a mediocre champion and didn't defend it against a single Welterweight contender, despite the fact that a whole crop of contenders subsequently came along who were a lot better than the mediocre champion he had beaten. The De La Hoya and Hatton fights would have been okay if he had also defended his title against some top contenders but he did not. Even then, when he came out of his so-called "retirement", all rational boxing fans were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt provided he started to fight the top fighters in his own division from now on. He claimed that's what he was going to do. But his words have turned to ashes and he's shown disrespect for every genuine boxing fan by giving the most idiotic reasons imaginable for not fighting the best fighters in his own weight class.

In the past four years, Manny has fought one elite fighter.

You're being ridiculous now.

[Dave Rado]

naa man I think that's all he cares about him and his family. All they talk about is boxing history. THEY want to be remembered..... they just want to make the most money while doing it.

He could achieve both aims by fighting Mosley followed by the Cotto-Pac winner, followed by Williams. But he's talking himself out of all those fights. If he's not careful he'll be remembered as the greatest wasted talent of all time.

[Al Haymon]

You're being ridiculous now.

Am i?

Please name the elite fighters that Manny Pacquiao has faced in the past four years:

2009: Hatton

2008: Marquez, Diaz, Delahoya

2007: Solis, Barrera 2

2006: Morales 2, Larios, Morales 3

The elite fighter I referred to is obvious. Who else on that list would you say was an elite fighter at that point?

Thanks for your response.

[Al Haymon]

Based on talent, not achievement. P4P is not a weight class, it's a hypothetical.....


He won his lineal title against a mediocre champion ......

I realize that p4p is not a weight class. Thanks for that. LOL. The point is that FMJ spanned five weight classes during a pretty short span. In 2001, Floyd beat Corrales at 130. In 2007, he beat Oscar at 154. I'm just saying.

And the pundits gave that ascent a lot of recognition.

Also, regarding the "Zab was a mediocre champion" argument, that is fine . IN RETROSPECT. Clearly, he wasn't viewed as 'mediocre" by the boxing establishment at the end of 2005 when Floyd made the Judah fight. Zab was a top ten p4p er at the time. Correct?

[Dave Rado]

Am i?

Please name the elite fighters that Manny Pacquiao has faced in the past four years:

2009: Hatton

2008: Marquez, Diaz, Delahoya

2007: Solis, Barrera 2

2006: Morales 2, Larios, Morales 3

The elite fighter I referred to is obvious. Who else on that list would you say was an elite fighter at that point?

Thanks for your response.

Morales, Barrera, Marquez, De La Hoya and Hatton were all ranked in the top 3 in their weight divisions at the time that he fought them. That is elite by any meaningful definition of the word. You're obsessed with the P4P lists. Great champions fight the best possible opposition in their weight class.

Morales was ranked #1 in his division coming into the second fight and #3 coming into the third (and in the third Morales was exercising a rematch clause in any case).

Barrera was ranked #3 when they fought their rematch.

Hatton and Marquez were ranked #1 in their weight divisions when he fought them. And Pacquiao was moving up in weight to fight the #1 ranked fighter in a higher weight division when he fought Hatton. A sizable minority of respected boxing experts picked Hatton to win - a much larger minority picked Hatton to beat Pacquiao than picked De La Hoya to beat Mayweather.

De La Hoya was ranked #3 at Jnr Middleweight and was the overwhelming favourite to win, both in terms of betting odds and among the boxing experts. Almost everyone regarded it as a complete mismatch in De La Hoya's favour. It was a far bigger risk fight for Pacquiao than any fight Floyd has ever had. The fact that De La Hoya blew it in his training and came in weight drained is not Pacquiao's fault. To pretend that fight was cherry picking is too ridiculous for words. And it was De La Hoya who went after the fight with Pacquiao, not the other way round.

Even Larios was ranked #2 in his own division when they fought, although admittedly in a lower weight division, so that's a bit similar to Floyd-JMM, but that fight was a was meant to be a tune-up, just as David Diaz and Solis were meant to be tune-ups.

[Dave Rado]

Also, regarding the "Zab was a mediocre champion" argument, that is fine . IN RETROSPECT. Clearly, he wasn't viewed as 'mediocre" by the boxing establishment at the end of 2005 when Floyd made the Judah fight. Zab was a top ten p4p er at the time. Correct?

When they fought, Judah had already lost his title. Mayweather won his title against Boldomir. Boldomir is the mediocre champion I was referring to, not Judah.

There's nothing wrong with the fact that he fought Boldomir, though. Boldomir was the legitimate champion. What was wrong was that he didn't defend his title even once against a Welterweight after he'd won it, despite the fact that a whole crop of Welterweights subsequently came along who were a lot better than Boldomir (and a lot better than Judah).

[Al Haymon]

Morales, Barrera, Marquez, De La Hoya and Hatton were all ranked in the top 3 in their weight divisions at the time that he fought them. .

Delahoya was a top 3 welter weight when Pac fought him?

Um, how?!?

[Al Haymon]

When they fought, Judah had already lost his title. Mayweather won his title against Boldomir. Boldomir is the mediocre champion I was referring to, not Judah.

There's nothing wrong with the fact that he fought Boldomir, though. Boldomir was the legitimate champion. What was wrong was that he didn't defend his title even once against a Welterweight after he'd won it, despite the fact that a whole crop of Welterweights subsequently came along who were a lot better than Boldomir (and a lot better than Judah).

In your previous post, you said that Delahoya was elite when Pac fought him

How was DLH "elite competition" for Pac at 147...but not for Floyd at 154 two years earlier? The whole welterweight issue should include DLH.

That would be like saying that Williams is ducking 154'ers to face 147'ers. RIGHT?

Floyd faced Hatton. Ricky has turned out not to be much, but he did get a solid win over Collazo at 147. Collazo is a top ten WW still. A guy who has fought Shane, and gave the WBC titlist all he can handle. I don't buy into triangle theories, but "who you fought" is what determines your status. And Ricky was coming in with wins over Tszyu, Collazo, Urango (who Berto fought), and a stoppage over Castillo.


Dave, if your point is that Floyd needs to beat the top welters to legitimize his status, my position is......maybe.
That "maybe" depends on who the top WW's are. I want to see Floyd in big fights. FMJ vs the winner of Pac/Cotto is a big fight. FMJ vs Mosley is a big fight. If Mosley loses to Berto or Clottey, I don't care to see Floyd fight Berto or Clottey. While those guys may be top WW's, they aren't class champion level.


Unlike most people, I don't expect Floyd to clean out his 4th or 5th weight class. Who else has done that?