Comments Thread For: Daily Bread Mailbag: Haney-Lomachenko, Spence-Crawford, Jake Paul, More

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  • ShoulderRoll
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    #11
    Originally posted by The D3vil

    Crawford's resume is a lot better than you guys give him credit for.

    Tank Davis had an immense amount of trouble with an old Gamboa who had blown out his achilles 8 years after Crawford stopped the prime P4P level version of him.

    Even Postol gave Jose Ramirez a hell of a fight 4 years after Crawford beat him.

    Crawford beats everybody he fights better & more decisively than everybody else who fights them most of the time, including Shawn Porter & Kell Brook
    Indogo and Thomas Dulorme and Jose Benavidez aren't some epic names on his resume, no matter how much Bread tries to sell them.

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    • rrayvez
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      #12
      Originally posted by ShoulderRoll

      Indogo and Thomas Dulorme and Jose Benavidez aren't some epic names on his resume, no matter how much Bread tries to sell them.
      Did anyone use the word “epic”? Other than you?

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      • ShoulderRoll
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        #13
        Originally posted by rrayvez
        Did anyone use the word “epic”? Other than you?
        No.

        But those were brought up as good names on Dud's resume when they simply aren't.

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        • Cypocryphy
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          #14
          Originally posted by Boxing Logic
          I don't understand what happened to Lomachenko. When he was fighting Linares, Pedraza, and Luke Campbell, he had the highest compubox stats not just for offense and power punching, but also for defense. He was elite coming forward, and he was elite going backward. He was elite on offense, and he was elite on defense. But then his critics started saying "he's only a pressure fighter, he has bad defense," even though there was zero evidence of that except for his 2nd pro fight vs Salido with a significantly enlarged body strikezone because of the low blows, which ruins a fighter's defensive guard the same way that happened to Kovalev vs Ward, because now you have twice as much area to cover with your gloves and they're not big enough to cover that much at once the way they are big enough to cover much of the legal strike zone. But then suddenly, Loma started fighting to the level that people were talking about him. His offense is still great, except for the lower activity and connect % vs Ortiz, but vs Nakatani and Commey it was still great, but his defense and counter punching ability off the back foot haven't been there as much.

          I mean, I guess they were vs Nakatani and Commey. The Teofimo fight and the Ortiz fights were just weird. Those fights make me really unsure if Loma will do the job against Haney. I haven't been impressed with Haney. He wasn't on my radar at all until the JoJo Diaz fight and even though JoJo is pretty good, he's nowhere near Loma at 135, but I thought it was a draw. Based on that and other deficiencies I see in Haney's game, I never thought of him as a threat to Loma. I thought he was going to be fighting off TV his whole career as more of a club fighter or contender. But now I'm thinking, he's American and he's young, and we know Boxing is a business. And we see from Jake Paul that the business most about who they think they can turn into a bigger ticket seller.

          But even that, I always thought Haney was not popular at all. Maybe he has some twitter followers like Rigondeaux did, but he never seemed to have a fan base. Most the good American boxers in the past had big fan bases and ticket sales and viewership and he doesn't seem to. But he is younger than Loma so maybe they think he can at least make them more money than Loma long term. Loma might have a bigger fan base right now in the US, and obviously way more worldwide, but maybe they think with time on Haney's side, he can at least get more US fans by the time he's Loma's age, and generate more money.

          There is never really any way to predict anything in this business. Who saw Ward beating Kovalev once let alone twice? Loma's performances against Ortiz and Teofimo has created a lot of uncertainty.
          People still miss the fact that Loma had a bad shoulder ever since the Linares fight. That caused a lot of issues going forward in his fights. It wasn't until the final surgery that he came back as Lomachenko vs Nakatani and Commey. I don't agree with the Breadman that he couldn't finish Commey, and I'm surprised that he's saying that. It was obvious that Loma liked Commey a lot even before the fight with how they were with each other. Loma stopped pursuing when it was obvious that Commey was hurt. He could have easily dove and and flurried, forcing a stoppage. It's so obvious that I don't understand how anyone cannot see it. I suppose Timothy Bradley and myself are the only one's who know the truth? Very strange ....

          That being said, 34/35 is a real number with real implications. There's no denying it or getting around it. Loma has aged, and the inactivity aged him. That's what happened. But how much has he aged? That's the question because there were other things going on in that fight other than age. First, he was not even training but doing his territorial defense. That's a job. You can't train and be in the military during war at the same time. Then he had a short camp. On top of that short camp, I saw Loma going to boxing matches and doing fundraising events a week or two out from the fight. For me, that was the first red flag that I saw, and I thought that Loma is not into this fight or not taking it seriously. Only he knows, however, but that was concerning for me going into this fight. Any fighter past 30 who takes time off is going to experience ring rust. That's as guaranteed as throwing a rock in the air and seeing it fall to the ground.

          Then you add Ortiz's fighting style. Styles do make fights. Ortiz is exceptional fast, and I think he's faster than Haney. I think he's actually more athletic than Haney. Also, Ortiz throws blistering, explosive combinations. Five piece and six piece combos. It was those combos that caused Loma to constantly have to reset and be wary because you never knew when Ortiz would launch himself with furious combos. Like I said, styles make fights. Ortiz is a difficult fight for anyone, including Haney and Shakur. He's underrated.

          Then you add on to the fact that Ortiz's main tactic to take away Loma's angles was to hold him with the lead, pull him in and start punching. That's called holding and hitting, which is a blatant foul. Apparently, boxing these days allow that to occur because no one knows how to fight on the inside anymore. Holding and hitting is never okay, and to see him do it so frequently and not get a warning is concerning.

          With all of that being said, what Ortiz did is not something that Haney does. Haney is not an explosive volume puncher, and the explosive volume punching is what caused Loma problems, that and the holding and hitting. Haney will hold and hit, but he is not an explosive volume puncher. So because of all of this, I have Loma beating Haney if they fight beginning of next year. I hope Loma is the underdog because I'm putting money on him.
          Last edited by Cypocryphy; 11-06-2022, 05:21 PM.

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          • rrayvez
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            #15
            Originally posted by ShoulderRoll

            No.

            But those were brought up as good names on Dud's resume when they simply aren't.
            They were all good fighters, if you actually know boxing. “Epic”, definitely not. And pretty sure Bread stated that Crawford’s resume was good and not great. Sounds like a pretty fair assessment to me when assessing a 3 division world champion who unified a division and beat 3 undefeated world champions along the way.

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            • ShoulderRoll
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              #16
              Originally posted by rrayvez
              They were all good fighters, if you actually know boxing. “Epic”, definitely not. And pretty sure Bread stated that Crawford’s resume was good and not great. Sounds like a pretty fair assessment to me when assessing a 3 division world champion who unified a division and beat 3 undefeated world champions along the way.
              No, they weren't all good fighters. Jose Benavidez got shot in the leg yet Bread is out here acting like that win impressed him.

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              • rrayvez
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                #17
                Originally posted by ShoulderRoll

                No, they weren't all good fighters. Jose Benavidez got shot in the leg yet Bread is out here acting like that win impressed him.
                Maybe because Bread knows what he’s looking at and feels that version of Benavidez would’ve been a problem for any current welterweight.

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                • ShoulderRoll
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                  #18
                  Originally posted by rrayvez
                  Maybe because Bread knows what he’s looking at and feels that version of Benavidez would’ve been a problem for any current welterweight.
                  Right.

                  Danny Garcia just whipped him.

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                  • rrayvez
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                    #19
                    Originally posted by ShoulderRoll

                    Right.

                    Danny Garcia just whipped him.
                    You are aware that those fights were close to 4 years apart right? Kind of a long time in boxing years. Again, it requires actually knowing the sport to understand that.

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                    • ShoulderRoll
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                      #20
                      Originally posted by rrayvez
                      You are aware that those fights were close to 4 years apart right? Kind of a long time in boxing years. Again, it requires actually knowing the sport to understand that.
                      Jose Benavidez isn't good now and he wasn't good 4 years ago. He was ruined by the gunshot.

                      Julius Indongo wasn't good either. Nor was Thomas Dulorme.

                      Stop trying to put a spin on Dud's resume. It's like putting lipstick on a pig.

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