Comments Thread For: Teddy Atlas Feels Anthony Joshua Has Been an 'Overrated Guy"

[champion4ever]

Because he beat 43 year old Wlad? Because Del Boy has also beaten Pulev and Takam

I see. That is a very fair point. Well at least four of his title defenses has been discredited. In addition, last not forget that Dillian Whyte had beaten Joseph Parker and Joseph Parker had already beaten Andy Ruiz before AJ defeated him. However, I would still stack his resume up against anybody in the heavyweight division.

[Bronx2245]

Damn! it looks like Anthony Joshua finds himself right smack in the middle of a shit storm! He's fought more top 10 opponents in the last six years than anyone in the Heavyweight division but now he is overrated?

Teddy Atlas knows the talent level of the "Top 10 HWs" in this era, and the Top 10 HWs in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, so he's judging AJ by his skill set, not his resume! Do you think Robert Helenius would be rated WBC #4, or WBA #2, back in the day? Joe Joyce is WBO #1, need I say more?

[champion4ever]

Teddy Atlas knows the talent level of the "Top 10 HWs" in this era, and the Top 10 HWs in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, so he's judging AJ by his skill set, not his resume! Do you think Robert Helenius would be rated WBC #4, or WBA #2, back in the day? Joe Joyce is WBO #1, need I say more?

No, they would not. I get what Atlas is saying. However, he must understand like Deontay Wilder; Anthony Joshua got into the fight game late at age 18 and Wilder at age 20. Neither fighter had an extensive amateur pedigree to fully develop and hone their skills as amateur fighters.

It's because the pressure was on them to turn professional in order to earn money. AJ only had 43 amateur fights to Wilder's 38 amateur fights. However, they both medaled at the Olympics which was a miracle. Anthony Joshua hasn't been fighting all his life like Floyd and Usyk.

[Bronx2245]

No, they would not. I get what Atlas is saying. However, he must understand like Deontay Wilder; Anthony Joshua got into the fight game late at age 18 and Wilder at age 20. Neither fighter had an extensive amateur pedigree to fully develop and hone their skills as amateur fighters.

It's because the pressure was on them to turn professional in order to earn money. AJ only had 43 amateur fights to Wilder's 38 amateur fights. However, they both medaled at the Olympics which was a miracle. Anthony Joshua hasn't been fighting all his life like Floyd and Usyk.

So he shouldn't have been hyped like Floyd and Usyk. That's why Teddy is calling him overrated! The expectations for Joshua were way above his skill level. Like you explained, he got into the game late, but all that got buried when he beat Wlad! When Fat Andy KO'd him, people thought is was a fluke. When Usyk, a CW, beats him twice, then people came back to reality! He's a good fighter, but he's not Lennox Lewis!

[PRINCEKOOL]

It was a "career best" because he almost won. He almost got a 27 year old the **** outta there despite being 40+ and off a near 2 year layoff.

Wilders performance against Fury was one of his most impressive too. But from a boxing standpoint it was ****ing awful. He didnt commit to the jab, fought basic as ****, was gassed by the 3rd round and spent most of the fight getting his face caved in. And I like Wilder. He's probably my favourite heavyweight.

The problem with a lot of Joshua fans is that you're man fans, not fans of a guy who boxes. Fury is a twat but his performance against Wlad was an absolute masterclass. Wlad has been KOed plenty but his jab and grab style was fast being seen as the depressing future of boxing. Hes never been systematically dismantled over 12 rounds. Fury showed exactly how you completely dismantle a longstanding champion is his backyard. His fainting in that fight was just gorgeous...but fainting isnt somethign ever understood by a casual or beginner. Ive been kickboxing for years and its atill not something I commit to in fights. For Fury to completely nullify a hall of famer with it is testament to his ability.

Skill for skill Usyk vs Joshua was a higher level fight than all of the Fury vs Wilder fights 'All of them, even the second fight'.

Both fighters that is Fury & Wilder over the entire duration of the trilogy did show awesome passion, aggression and resolve 'But skill for skill, it was not a high level trilogy'.

And the third fight was the lowest level fight of them all 'Skill for skill'.

I preferred the Wilder vs Fury match ups over most Joshua fights, I think the competition and passion was completely awesome. But I understand, and accept the action for what it was 'A low level Heavyweight title clash skill for skill'.

Both defensively and offensively especially in the third fight, both fighters were making mistakes unforced and forced. Both fighters would of been ****** out that night by many past all-time great fighters. If Only Wilder could of come straight down the middle with his punches, he may of got Fury out of there.

I see you have brought up the Wladimir Kiltschko fight, and yes Fury did get the win. But if you analyse his career, that is the last time he has actually fought at elite level skill for skill. Since that fight Fury has not fought another opponent with elite level technical ability 'And lets also factor in that Kiltschko by all accounts was not at his absolute best, he had issues outside the ring with his woman being unwell'.

It was a good performance by Fury, in terms of trickery. But it was no boxing masterclass, at no point did Kiltschko stop trying and he was not beaten up. Fury was the fighter who was being backed up all night 'So I will disagree with you, that is not how you win a world title in somebodies back yard'.

Joshua win over Kiltschko is more impressive mate, he fought a better prepared Kiltschko who had endured three back to back training camps. He was 240 pounds for Joshua, vs 245 pounds vs Fury. There are people out there who say things like? Wladimir Kiltschko was inactive, and they use this cliche to try and discredit Joshua's win.

Well? below I have attached a prior post of mine which completely dismantles the cliche of activity. It is training and training camps which are the most influential variable as to why fights are won and lost. Anthony Joshua fought and beat a better version of Wladimir Kiltschko than Tyson Fury.

All in all, the point I am making here is that out of the two fighters 'Joshua & Fury'. Joshua is actually the more experienced fighter at elite and world class level, he has just went 24 rounds with a super elite fighter in Usyk 'And improved in the second fight'. While Fury has just faced Dillian Whyte, a regressed fighter who has already been decked, beaten up and ****** out multiple times before 'The best version of Whyte was probably ****** out by both Joshua & Povetkin'. Whyte is a alright fighter, good passion, but skill for skill he can hardly move inside the ring these days.

You keep going back to Tyson Fury vs Wladimir Kiltschko mate. Fury is not that fighter anymore, he is not 248 pounds and is not training under the tutorship of Peter Fury 'He is no longer The Riddler'.

On Fury vs Joshua I have still intrigued and unsure how both fighters style's will look against one another once they are in the ring. All I can say at this point is that Tyson Fury is the favorite, and if he is this great all time fighter like people claim? Fury should get Joshua out of there, Joshua should not even win a round and definitely should not survive the full 12 rounds.

You can use it as a excuse mate. Because if you do, you are proving me right 'So go for it'. Proving me right, that fights are 90% won or lost in training camp. Fighters don't just turn up to the ring in shape and battle ready, it is training camps which help achieve this state.

In one of your prior posts, you disagreed with my statement. That Wladimir Kiltschko was in better condition for Anthony Joshua vs Tyson Fury.

My reasoning for this opinion, was that Wladimir Kiltschko had endured three back to back training camps. That was what he was doing during the entire time people claim he was inactive. When in reality he was not stereo typically inactive.

He had went through 2 training camps for the two Tyson Fury fights, which Fury pulled out of. And then finally a 3rd and final training camp for Anthony Joshua.

Wladimir Kiltschko was 240 pounds vs Anthony Joshua, and 245 pounds vs Tyson Fury.

Andy Ruiz Junior fought approximately 6 weeks before the first Anthony Joshua fight, and then the rematch was round about 6 months later. So Andy Ruiz Junior by the time the rematch with Anthony Joshua was scheduled, was onto his 3rd fight in 6 months 'So we can all agree, that he was active fighter'.

So Ruiz Junior was more active than Wladimir Kiltschko, but not in as great as condition why is that? I will tell you why, because of the quality of his training camp.

By trying to catch me out, you are proving yourself wrong and ME right.

If everybody is honest with themselves, they will all admit. That training camps are pretty much the most influential variable as to why fights are won and lost. They are by far more beneficial for a fighter, than having a easy fight against a opponent that does not test them. So this notion that being a stereo typically active fighter, is the be and end all of everything is to certain degree nonsense.

Wladimir Kiltschko endured 3 back to back training camps, in my opinion he was in better condition for Joshua and in his own expert opinion 'That was also his belief'.

So if you still believe that being active is not as beneficial as actually training and having battle ready training camps. Why are you posting this article? Tell me why you are posting this article?

Note: I will tell you exactly why? Because deep down, you know that training camps are pretty much the most influential variables as to why fights are won and lost. You know this, everybody on this forum knows this, everybody boxing coach knows this, and every fighter in the game knows this etc.

[champion4ever]

So he shouldn't have been hyped like Floyd and Usyk. That's why Teddy is calling him overrated! The expectations for Joshua were way above his skill level. Like you explained, he got into the game late, but all that got buried when he beat Wlad! When Fat Andy KO'd him, people thought is was a fluke. When Usyk, a CW, beats him twice, then people came back to reality! He's a good fighter, but he's not Lennox Lewis!

Solid post and well said! I agree!

[SUBZER0ED]

I remember them saying how hard Holyfield had trained by putting on 15 pounds of muscle between the second and third Bowe fight.

because we all know how possible that is to do naturally

SImply amazing!

[_Rexy_]

SImply amazing!

I rewatched all three fights during the first lockdown, and when that was mentioned I had to rewind and make sure that’s what I heard

[Bob]

Overrated, Underrated, Rated, it is all irrelevant really.

Joshua is underrated and overrated. When I use these words, I am mainly speaking about fight ability.

His endurance and skill for skill boxing ability is better than people claim. Especially in today's era of Heavyweights.

But Joshua has no inside game, no idea how to also tie a fighter up 'Not much rough house skills, and the inability to fight a good big man fight'.

Overall I think Joshua's resume is good, I still rate his win over Wladimir Kiltschko higher than Fury's win. Kiltschko was in better condition, and had endured three back to back training camps.

Buuuulshido!
Had to stop reading there.
Resume?? Take away all the shot 38-41 yr olds of the former generation & who's left?
Klitschko Kanye was an exciting fight to watch but AJ's is so slow & wooden a 41 yr old Klitschko a year & a half retired, removed from the tbrb rankings could match him until father time stopped him finishing the job after 6.
A relevant but still 39 yrs ancient Klitschko couldn't touch Fury's twitch movement defence & Fury toyed with Klitschko (which is why Klitschko wouldn't spar Fury in his own camp year's before) in a terrible fight to watch but Fury's skill level to do that to the number 1 that way you have to give respect.
Condition better