Comments Thread For: Bivol Believes Canelo Won 'Maximum' 4 Rounds

[OldTerry]

The first 4 were scored even, that leaves 8 rounds and if Bivol is right did Canelo win any of the 4 even rounds, if not according to Bivol Canelo won 4 of the remaining 8.

The even rounds are what throws the scoring out of wack.

If the judges were worried about getting out it wasn't a fix so scored Bivol the winner, you don't have half a fix in the real world lol, sounds like a roaring 40s Humprey Bogart movie. The Harder They Fall.

Teddy Atlas believes (and it is very plausible) that the fix was embedded in the judges giving Canelo the first four rounds. We know that if the fight is stopped due to an accidental headbutt the decision goes to the score cards, so if by chance the fight had been stopped prior to the eighth round Canelo would have won by decision. They continued to give Canelo round he lost after the fourth as well. Fortunately for Bivol his 12-round performance overrode the judges best efforts to cheat him.

[OldTerry]

Since you are talking narratives, here is one for you:

Bivol has a long-term co-promotional deal with Matchroom. Hearn has a working business relationship with Canelo, but Canelo is a free agent. He works with other promoters also. While he is extremely lucrative for Matchroom when he works with them, there is a risk he could strike up a lasting relationship with a rival promoter, which would be a big negative for Hearn.

While Hearn would have been happy with either outcome, Bivol winning is strategically a better outcome for Matchroom than Canelo.

Those talking about a fix are having a laugh. What kind of a fix gives you the wrong result? How does that even work?

Final question: Canelo talking about beating Usyk... Did that notion really begin with Canelo? Maybe someone has been whispering in his ear a long time to build up his confience in believing there was little risk in moving up to take on big challenges.

I think it would be more appropriate if we just called it what it is. an "attempted Fix." If the judges had gone any further than they did to give Canelo the fight the outrage would not have been worth it. They did all they could to gift the decision to Canelo without jeopardizing themselves.

[OldTerry]

I think everyone here is forgetting something important: when scoring a Canelo fight, jabs do not count. It has been brought up here many times when talking about why Canelo was the deserved winner of a fight- you don't win fights by jabbing (at least in Canelo fights).

Now, keep that in mind and go back and watch the fight. The scorecards will make more sense.

According to boxing rules, scoring jabs count. If the judges don't count scoring jabs against Canelo then it is a fix by default.

[JuniorTorres720]

They're kinda dumb only studying only his last 2 fights, i always defended Bivol as not a cherry pick and was capable of beating canelo, since i started following his career since 2018, but apparently they thought it was a cherrypick for them due to his last 2 fights.

Yeah, I think there was definitely a level of cherry picking gone wrong here lol. After careful thought, I still think this was a challenge for Canelo but he probably went into it thinking he'd face a lesser version of Bivol. I don't think he expected Bivol to turn up the way he did. It was a challenge without a doubt and Canelo should be commended for it because he went up in weight and to face a world champion considered to be among the top three in the division. My hats off to Canelo but I also think they underestimated Bivol.

[JuniorTorres720]

Since you are talking narratives, here is one for you:

Bivol has a long-term co-promotional deal with Matchroom. Hearn has a working business relationship with Canelo, but Canelo is a free agent. He works with other promoters also. While he is extremely lucrative for Matchroom when he works with them, there is a risk he could strike up a lasting relationship with a rival promoter, which would be a big negative for Hearn.

While Hearn would have been happy with either outcome, Bivol winning is strategically a better outcome for Matchroom than Canelo.

Those talking about a fix are having a laugh. What kind of a fix gives you the wrong result? How does that even work?

Final question: Canelo talking about beating Usyk... Did that notion really begin with Canelo? Maybe someone has been whispering in his ear a long time to build up his confience in believing there was little risk in moving up to take on big challenges.

You should check out Teddy Atlas' recent video "The Anatomy of a Fixed Fight" on YouTube. Your argument makes sense but if Hearn told Bivol to his face that he didn't expect him to look that good, can we really say that Hearn knew Bivol had a greater chance of beating Canelo? I definitely see the perspective of the promoter wanting to keep his fighter looking strong. But I also think Hearn and Canelo's relationship is so strong, brotherly I would say, that I don't think he'd suffer much from breaking away from Canelo for a short period. There relationships leads me to think that they'll continue to work together throughout the next several years. I think Bivol was underestimated and few expected him to turn up the way he did. Even considering the underestimation by Hearn and others, I still commend Canelo for taking the challenge. It was a challenge nonetheless. Maybe he took the fight thinking he'd have a better chance of beating Bivol, but it was still a tough task facing a world champion considered to be among the top three in his division. It was a calculated risk that more risk than not, and it didn't work out. No shame in defeat but I think we should be aware that there was a level of underestimation by those on the other side of Bivol.

[JuniorTorres720]

Just because Hearn thought Bivol was a slouch, doesn't mean Saul & Reynoso did.

Every interview I've seen from Saul & Reynosos pre & post fight he says that Bivol is a good fighter & challenging fighter & they want challenges.

I agree. I definitely think that Saul and his team understood the risk of facing a top three light heavyweight world champion. I just think they thought their chances would have been better. But it is what it is. That's boxing. They thought they had a chance but they didn't get the win. I still commend Canelo for taking the risk because it was a risk nonetheless. Regardless of whether or not he thought he could win it.

[Bonham77]

You should check out Teddy Atlas' recent video "The Anatomy of a Fixed Fight" on YouTube. Your argument makes sense but if Hearn told Bivol to his face that he didn't expect him to look that good, can we really say that Hearn knew Bivol had a greater chance of beating Canelo? I definitely see the perspective of the promoter wanting to keep his fighter looking strong. But I also think Hearn and Canelo's relationship is so strong, brotherly I would say, that I don't think he'd suffer much from breaking away from Canelo for a short period. There relationships leads me to think that they'll continue to work together throughout the next several years. I think Bivol was underestimated and few expected him to turn up the way he did. Even considering the underestimation by Hearn and others, I still commend Canelo for taking the challenge. It was a challenge nonetheless. Maybe he took the fight thinking he'd have a better chance of beating Bivol, but it was still a tough task facing a world champion considered to be among the top three in his division. It was a calculated risk that more risk than not, and it didn't work out. No shame in defeat but I think we should be aware that there was a level of underestimation by those on the other side of Bivol.

The only time in Teddy Atlas's mind that's there's a fixed fight is when he's totally wrong with his analysis of a fight. I've never seen anyone with such a prominent name in boxing as far as " name " trainers get fight predictions so wrong. There's a bunch of them, Robert Garcia, Atlas , Abel Sanchez. Theyre all brutal. Fighters current and past ? Nobody is worse than those guys for predicting fights. When Bernard Hopkins sees a microphone, he should just run, he's that bad. A few of the good ones that have good insight and pretty decent track records for breaking down a fight , like these guys or not, are Roy Jones, Tim Bradley, Andre Ward and Paulie.

[P to the J]

Your clueless. Canelo never won a round. Bivol outdid Canelo in each and every round. Out connected in every round. And where in Queensbury do punches to the gloves , arms, elbows , forearms , shoulders , hips , and air , count ? Canelo looked like a lost novice amateur in there. Not only that, but every round was controlled by Bivol. He dictated the pace, the distance and the flow of the fight. Canelo wasnt effective at ring centre, on the ropes, nowhere. The only reason anyone gave him a round was because of who he was, and thats Canelo Alvarez . He got out-performed in every way possible, in every round. Not even close. And yes, whether you like it or not, close rounds, are 10-10. Or to the title holder in the title fight. That's the way it goes. You just don't give a round to the challenger to keep things close in the scorecards. You give a round to the challenger if he actually WINS a round . Canelo , under the rules , never won a round. Out punched and controlled in EVERY round. As one sided a fight , and easiest fight anyone could score. Canelo looked horrible. A spitting image of a wild swinging , never connecting , glorified clubfighter that you'd typically see at a local Legion in a Saturday night in a small town. Horrific performance.

I think you’re arguing with someone that exists in your head. Probably a Canelo fan that you manufactured into life

[P to the J]

I saw zero rounds where Canelo did the more effective work. Canelo was lumbering around throwing one blocked punch at a time and Bivol was landing flush combinations down the pipe flush to his face and Canelo’s head was bouncing like a speed bag every single round. Canelo may have got a punch to slip in after grazing Bivols arms and shoulders first but Bivol was landing clean combinations down the pipe every round. Canelo never landed a single combination and barely landed anything period. I honestly couldn’t give a single round to Canelo. Every round Canelos face got beat and Bivols face never got touched. Every round! Nope Canelo didn’t win one round.

Ok, the punch stays entirely disagree with your claims that he ‘barely landed’. Although most rounds, he was outlanded considerably, some were 10-12 punches to Canelo’s 9.

Cánelo had a better round 9 than Bivol, and landed some flush uppercuts early on in rounds with little notable other work. They’re the ones I’ve given Canelo. 3 absolute max. Not as if I’m sucking his goddamn ****, here.

I prefer Bivol, I called for his win beforehand, think he’s a sick boxer, and saw him totally outclass Canelo. But what can I say? I’m not a reactionary twat. There were nuances involved in the fight, and I saw what I saw.

[-Kev-]

I see your argument entirely there. As if a neutral position belongs to the big player by default.

I gave him 3 rounds, but when I saw compubox, I was surprised. On that basis, could have been a shut out, but (a) I don’t know how accurate it is, and (b) I saw the odd round where, although Bivol outlanded, it wasn’t by much, while Canelo made direct contact with some hard shots (albeit, turns out they didn’t trouble Bivol).

Compubox is total numbers. You have to score round by round. While compubox showed a huge margin in punches landed, those huge margins came in a few of the dominant rounds for Bivol. Compubox, punch stats, are good tools to use if used correctly and objectively.

A lot of fans, even after 20 years, still use Mayweather vs Castillo I compubox as some form of reaffirmation that Castillo was robbed. They don’t take into account that Castillo had several GREAT rounds which inflated his total compubox numbers. Having those several great rounds doesn’t automatically give him a win over Mayweather.

According to compubox, in that case, then Chad Dawson beat Jean Pascal in their 11 round TD. Even though Dawson was outhustled and outfought by Pascal and just had a strong finish that inflated his compubox stats past Pascal’s overall numbers. But round by round, he didn’t win.

Again, great tool to use, but it is misused by some.