Cotto, Santos Promise Puerto Rico Power in November

[Iceta]

Commercial realities may dictate otherwise, but if he's patient and keeps fighting, his time will come. If he beats Clottey impressively, he'll deserve to fight the winner, but if Mayweather looks good against Marquez, he's more likely to get the first bite of the cherry, because there's a lot more money in that fight. But if Mosley then fights Berto or another top fighter instead of complaining, and wins again, he'd definitely get to fight the winner of Mayweather vs. the Pac-Cotto winner.

I am still skeptical whether or not either one of those guys would fight Mosley even then. If a Margarito thumping didn't entice any of those guys to fight him, then a victory over Berto and Clottey wouldn't either. On another note, I think it sucks that the Valero-Soto fight is off the undercard of Pacquiao-Cotto. That makes Arum look ****** for throwing a fight on there between Foreman and Santos because there is no guarantee that the rest of the card will be good.

A lot of times promoters can't help if the undercard is good or bad. But it sure doesn't help to throw a lame fight on there right off the bat. The fighters have to agree to fight on the undercard and get to the fight healthy, but it is up to the promoters to put out good offers and make sure that the undercard has some quality control.

[TOBYLEE1]

Personally I am not Mexican I am not puertorican. Do you think Marg used "plaster" against Sebastian Lujan? And, like I responded before. They found traces of sulfer and phosphate in his wraps. That does not make plaster. I am not ignorant. I think is ignorant to accuse somebody without proof. I am not a hater. I might be in denial tho lol... But, still I would like proof. I am sorry if I am asking too much. Just by saying look at his face is something fishy there. Is not proof to me. I see Lujan ear coming off. Do you think Marg use "plaster" in that fight?

They did find plaster elements, there were other elements found. He got suspended on facts not on asumptions. There is no way to find out if he ever used plaster against anybody else, only he and his trainer know. Also Margo was suppose to fight on November after the Cotto fight but didn't recover in time. We will never know how much damage both fighters endured in that fight.

Also Margo still hangs out with his trainer, if he really didn't know that he put plaster there (since he admitted that Margo didn't know), he should had been angry at him making him loose millions of dollars cause of the suspension.

[jrosales13]

J, Let me start off by saying I missed your response to my post on this thread. I I try to always respond but I missed it. I apologize. As far as the truth you seek we both know it can't be obtained. So what do we do? We form opinions and yes your right it is an opinion. My opinion is based on the damage to Cotto's face, evidence found by Mosley's trainer and the opinions of highly reguarded people in the sport of boxing. People need to put all the facts together and form their own. Beleive it or not this is is how the road to truth is initially sarted. Call me a cabezon if you want to but I won't be changing mine and can't expect others to change theirs. Opinions that is!!!

I don't expect you to change your mind and I respect your opinion. However, I think we should also leave room for error also. Could of he done it sure, is there proof I don't think so. But, some Cotto fans is like a fact that he did. Some of his fans don't leave room for maybe, maybe not. What if he didn't do it. Could there be chance that wa him that did? And, The truth of the matter no matter what he does will never prove that he did not use it. I am not saying I am right. But I just feel that is a legit win until proven otherwise. However I do leave room of possibility that he could of. My thing is I would like more proof than by he try to use it with Mosley and Look at Cotto face.

[jrosales13]

Taking it as a legit win is like saying there is proof he didn't cheat. It is is not certain, there's no absolute proof, but in probability terms, it's very likely on any rational assessment. The win can't be deleted from his record because there's no proof and no certainty (and by definition cannot ever be, it's too late to get proof now, unless Marg confesses, which he is very unlikely to do) - but it has a huge asterisk against it.

So Cotto shouldn't be given a complete pass for that loss - and his game plan was all wrong for that fight, which certainly contributed to his defeat - but the very legitimate doubts about the loss's validity should certainly be taken into account when assessing Cotto's career.

To take your extreme position - that it was a legitimate win - is just as bad as taking the opposite extreme position - that plaster was the only reason Cotto lost.

Both extreme positions are wrong.

I disagree I don't think I am taking an extreme position. I said I take it as a legit win. I think if I was being extreme I would say it should be taken, or you should take it as a legit win. But, I am just giving the way I feel in a sence that everybody is innocent until proven guilty. I know I am in the minority in that but in sports and in life I just give the benefit of the doubt until hard evidence come. I may be naive but I just like proof before I accuse him of having plaster against Cotto. The whole look at Cotto damage face. Dosen't do it for me. I am not saying that Margarito deffinetely didn't use it. I am saying give me something better than he tried to use it against Mosley, so that means of course he will use it against Cotto. That is why I feel is a legit win, not that everybody should count it as a legit. But, for ME I count it as such. Until proven otherwise. Now if people want to put an asterisk on the win? I am fine with that, is ok. But, like you said don't make it seem like the only way Margarito won, is because he had something in his wraps.

[jrosales13]

They did find plaster elements, there were other elements found. He got suspended on facts not on asumptions. There is no way to find out if he ever used plaster against anybody else, only he and his trainer know. Also Margo was suppose to fight on November after the Cotto fight but didn't recover in time. We will never know how much damage both fighters endured in that fight.

Also Margo still hangs out with his trainer, if he really didn't know that he put plaster there (since he admitted that Margo didn't know), he should had been angry at him making him loose millions of dollars cause of the suspension.

What other elements besides traces of sulfer and phosphate did they find? I read the report. That was the only 2 elements on the wraps. And, you need more to make plaster. They suspended him, cuz he for a fact tried to use wraps that had traces of sulfer and phosphate. There should be no reason for sulfer and phosphate to be on his wraps. It's against the rules. That is why he was rightfully suspended.

I agree that we will never know how much damage both fighters endured in the fight. And, yes Margarito is guilty for being dumb and hanging with the wrong crowd. I don't like that he still hangs out with Capatillo but again that is not proof that he used it against Cotto. The only thing that could suggest is that he knew what Capatillo was doing going into the Mosley bout.

[BERNIE'S CORNER]

I don't expect you to change your mind and I respect your opinion. However, I think we should also leave room for error also. Could of he done it sure, is there proof I don't think so. But, some Cotto fans is like a fact that he did. Some of his fans don't leave room for maybe, maybe not. What if he didn't do it. Could there be chance that wa him that did? And, The truth of the matter no matter what he does will never prove that he did not use it. I am not saying I am right. But I just feel that is a legit win until proven otherwise. However I do leave room of possibility that he could of. My thing is I would like more proof than by he try to use it with Mosley and Look at Cotto face.

J, I hear you and also respect your opinion.Problem I'm having now is my opinion of Margarito, don't get me wrong I rooted against him when he fought Cotto but dam man I've also enjoyed watched him fight. Truth be told he has stained himself and the sport. What are we to think of his past accomplishments? I believe in second chances but for me its a tough call. The damage that can that can be done by not following the rules are well documented and down right criminal. I'm done with this issue and I'm hoping not to get pulled into this conversasion again.I also use an open mind and will continue to do so, hoping others do the same.

[jrosales13]

J, I hear you and also respect your opinion.Problem I'm having now is my opinion of Margarito, don't get me wrong I rooted against him when he fought Cotto but dam man I've also enjoyed watched him fight. Truth be told he has stained himself and the sport. What are we to think of his past accomplishments? I believe in second chances but for me its a tough call. The damage that can that can be done by not following the rules are well documented and down right criminal. I'm done with this issue and I'm hoping not to get pulled into this conversasion again.I also use an open mind and will continue to do so, hoping others do the same.

I agree with a lot that you said. And, on the rest we would just have to agree to disagree. Is all good and respect from my end.

[Dave Rado]

I am still skeptical whether or not either one of those guys would fight Mosley even then. If a Margarito thumping didn't entice any of those guys to fight him, then a victory over Berto and Clottey wouldn't either.

That's not a fair analogy. Cotto offered Mosley a fight immediately after Mosley beat Marg, but he turned it down. Mayweather turned him down because he wanted a tune-up first (and also because GPB low-balled him) but made it clear there could be a fight between them down the road. Pac went for Cotto rather than Mosley because it was a much bigger fight, but if Mosley keeps active and keeps winning convincingly, the biggest fight by far for the ultimate winner between Pac-Cotto-Mayweather-Marquez would be against Mosley. So it's a completely different situation. And Mosley damaged his own standing commercially by turning down fights against Cotto, Berto and Williams earlier this year, so he has only himself to blame that his commercial value has gone downhill since then.

[CottoKOsPacman]

I am still skeptical whether or not either one of those guys would fight Mosley even then. If a Margarito thumping didn't entice any of those guys to fight him, then a victory over Berto and Clottey wouldn't either. On another note, I think it sucks that the Valero-Soto fight is off the undercard of Pacquiao-Cotto. That makes Arum look ****** for throwing a fight on there between Foreman and Santos because there is no guarantee that the rest of the card will be good.

A lot of times promoters can't help if the undercard is good or bad. But it sure doesn't help to throw a lame fight on there right off the bat. The fighters have to agree to fight on the undercard and get to the fight healthy, but it is up to the promoters to put out good offers and make sure that the undercard has some quality control.

J, I hear you and also respect your opinion.Problem I'm having now is my opinion of Margarito, don't get me wrong I rooted against him when he fought Cotto but dam man I've also enjoyed watched him fight. Truth be told he has stained himself and the sport. What are we to think of his past accomplishments? I believe in second chances but for me its a tough call. The damage that can that can be done by not following the rules are well documented and down right criminal. I'm done with this issue and I'm hoping not to get pulled into this conversasion again.I also use an open mind and will continue to do so, hoping others do the same.

Personally I am not Mexican I am not puertorican. Do you think Marg used "plaster" against Sebastian Lujan? And, like I responded before. They found traces of sulfer and phosphate in his wraps. That does not make plaster. I am not ignorant. I think is ignorant to accuse somebody without proof. I am not a hater. I might be in denial tho lol... But, still I would like proof. I am sorry if I am asking too much. Just by saying look at his face is something fishy there. Is not proof to me. I see Lujan ear coming off. Do you think Marg use "plaster" in that fight?

to me he got caught red handed: all his fights should be assumed that he used plaster, period. a thief gets caught by police, first things he claims is hes innocent, second he had no knowledge, it was the other guy,& then when hes gonna get sentenced he tells the judge it was his first & only time he did it....u still need more proof that he was a thief before that once instance? .....cmon now, u might be in denial but u aint that ignorant to think he aint a thief & has never stole before.....margacheato is a cheater for life, if he did it once im sure hes done it before question is, for what other fights...dont u think common sense would tell u he'd use them plaster wraps in his most dangerous fight? to me all that power that margo had gained a reputation for was created by his lethal wraps. & without them hes just be an average fighter, which u will see first hand when he does come back. infact i'll go as far & say that hell most likely get KO'd again by an elite fighter...hes 2 slow & has no skill what so ever, other than a granite chin which isnt that much granite anymore..without the plaster he wont have power & elite fighters will just chop him down. in boxing once u get KO'd the way he did, ur brain just cant take a punch the same way anymore. & he just doesnt have the defensive skill to avoid punches. watch & see & remember when i called it like it was...to me cotto is still undefeated & knowone can change my mind on that..

[prsi]

My thing is I would like more proof than by he try to use it with Mosley and Look at Cotto face.

I don't like that he still hangs out with Capatillo but again that is not proof that he used it against Cotto. The only thing that could suggest is that he knew what Capatillo was doing going into the Mosley bout.

I agree with you that there's no hard evidence against Margarito in the Cotto fight and that most of our opinions are biased by the look of Cotto's face but there's some questions that have not been answer properly.

Why would Margarito try to use the wraps on a fight that he was expected to win (Favorite against Mosley) and not use the wraps on a fight he was expected to lose (nonfavorite against Cotto)??

Didn't Capetillo himself said that the "blood stained wraps" that were found on Mosley was a slight mistake because they were leftovers from the Cotto's fight and he didn't knew how they were still in his bag??? During the hearing in the CSAC this questioned was asked, but it was dismissed because in was not relevant for the hearing and the outcome of their fight (Mosley -Margarito) and the Cotto-Margarito was not under their Jurisdiction being that the fight took place in Las Vegas Nevada.

If Margarito claims "he didn't know what Capetillo had put in his hands for Mosley" how can he be certain that it was not put in his hand for Cotto???
Although that excuse of not knowing what Capetillo put in his hands is kind of unbeleiveable (in my opinion a lie), because you get your hands wrapped right in front of you. This brings me to my next question, ****m was able to notice the platser because of how hard the wraps were just by touching and feeling them, without the experience of seeing day in and day out, how Capetillo wraps Margos hands, How is it possible that Margarito himself didn't notice, being Capetillo the only person that has been taking care of his hands for his whole career???

At the end of the day you are correct there is no hard evidence or proof and probably we will never know until somebody (Margarito or Capetillo) speaks up. Something that will never happen because it would mean the end of their careers and a possibility of them being sued.

But the fact is that there is more doubts suggesting that it was a not a clean victory, than certainty that it was.

EDIT:
I initially quoted the wrong state for the Margarito/Cotto fight above. The fight took place in Las Vegas, Nevada not in New York. Still out of CSAC jurisdiction.

Thanks to Bernie's Corner for the correction.