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Can we stop pretending previous generation heavyweights are too small? Usyk and Joe Louis are the same size

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  • #41
    Most of these black and white era dont have the skill either.

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    • #42
      Ursk is a small HW by todays standards I guess that's why he bulked up from a smaller division, 6.5 has become the new normal and like every other sport there is they have gotten bigger, the thread is a fail.

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      • #43
        First thing to note, Usyk is bigger than Louis. Inch and a half taller, 2 inches longer reach, and 15 - 20lbs heavier. (When he isn't cutting weight to make 200) I also feel that Usyk's southpaw stance and shifty, defensive style gives him a better chance of beating massive guys like Fury, Wlad, Vitali or AJ than Joe's seek and destroy power punching approach.

        That doesn't mean Louis couldn't have beaten any of the guys I mentioned though, just that his comparative lack of size would be a significant disadvantage against all of them. The same goes for Usyk, of course. But his shiftiness, mobility and superb defensive skills give him options for overcoming a size disadvantage that wouldn't be there for Louis.

        Generally, I've noticed that most posters at this forum go too far in either one direction or another when comparing greats of the past to modern giants. From, "No 6' 2" 200lb guy has a cat in hell's chance of beating a monster like Fury" to, "Above LHW, size isn't a factor"

        What I'm saying here boils down to this .... you can't compare video footage of Joe Louis demolishing Max Schmeling and Tyson Fury demolishing Deontay Wilder without taking into account the fact that Fury is 7" taller, 9" longer and almost 80lbs heavier than Louis. Neither can you ignore the video evidence and say "Fury beats Louis" based on physical stats alone.
        Last edited by kafkod; 10-20-2021, 01:59 PM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Smash View Post

          the 'size matters' term maybe could be changed to size matters (just not as much as some thought)'?
          You've got it, pal!
          Smash likes this.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by kafkod View Post
            First thing to note, Usyk is bigger than Louis. Inch and a half taller, 2 inches longer reach, and 15 - 20lbs heavier. (When he isn't cutting weight to make 200) I also feel that Usyk's southpaw stance and shifty, defensive style gives him a better chance of beating massive guys like Fury, Wlad, Vitali or AJ than Joe's seek and destroy power punching approach.

            That doesn't mean Louis couldn't have beaten any of the guys I mentioned though, just that his comparative lack of size would be a significant disadvantage against all of them. The same goes for Usyk, of course. But his shiftiness, mobility and superb defensive skills give him options for overcoming a size disadvantage that wouldn't be there for Louis.

            Generally, I've noticed that most posters at this forum go too far in either one direction or another when comparing greats of the past to modern giants. From, "No 6' 2" 200lb guy has a cat in hell's chance of beating a monster like Fury" to, "Above LHW, size isn't a factor"

            Like the laws of physics don't apply above 175lb?

            What I'm saying here boils down to this .... you can't compare video footage of Joe Louis demolishing Max Schmeling and Tyson Fury demolishing Deontay Wilder without taking into account the fact that Fury is 7" taller, 9" longer and almost 80lbs heavier than Louis. Neither can you ignore the video evidence and say "Fury beats Louis" based on physical stats alone.
            I've said this before and I'll say it again


            In 50 years we will probably have 7'5" 350lb heavyweight champs who move like cruisers and people will still say Rocky Marciano would have chinned them

            Would these old timers have a punchers chance against todays champs? Yes, but they would lose 9/10 times, every other sport in the world has moved on except boxing apparently, why don't we go back to the 1800s and get some moustache guy in a bathing suit who boxed 472 rounds vs one guy, I'm sure we can make a case for him beating Fury if we watch enough brown and white footage recorded on on a camera the size of a bus.
            Last edited by Earl-Hickey; 10-19-2021, 05:15 AM.

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            • #46
              Funniest thing is not Usyk isn't even 6'3...he looks in the 6'2 range.

              I've been saying the obsession with size at heavyweight is idiotic. Wlad weight and height bullied a ****ty division made up of overweight bums who often had the added disadvantage of having to fight in Germany where refs would let Wlad get away with all kinds of bull****.

              I very much suspect guys like Ruiz, Whyte, Usyk and Hunter to give their larger counterparts plenty of problems.

              These extra large heavyweights aren't like NBA players who have been trained on footwork and selected for ultra altheticism from childhood, they're mostly dudes who cam from other sports who started boxing from 18-22, meaning they already have a disadvantage in terms of drilled in habits which require boxing from childhood.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Mr Giggles View Post
                Usyk went life and death with chisora. Usyk got lucky that AJ got the gameplan wrong.

                This whole Usyk hype is ridiculous beyond belief. He’s a cruiserweight, and a different rejuvenated AJ will knock him out
                Time and time again its proven that Joshua really has some of the dumbest fans alive.



                Yeah, its not like Usyk outworked, outpunched and outfought Joshua and had him on wobbly legs three times, he just got the gameplan wrong guyz

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by ShaneMosleySr View Post
                  Louis was 6-2. Usyk is 6-3.

                  Louis had a 76 inch reach. Usyk has a 78 inch reach.

                  Joe Louis’ highest weight was 218. Usyk was 220 last night. That’s the first time Usyk ever weighed more than Louis’ highest weight.

                  Louis also weighed more than 200 pounds for almost all of his 69 fights. Usyk has weighed more than 200 pounds three times.

                  1 inch in height, 2 inches in reach.

                  Nice try though.


                  If you want to be precise, split the difference on height - Louis was 6-1 and a half.

                  Prime Louis consistently weighed in either just under or just over 200. He was at the tail end of his career when he came at 218 and lost to Ezzard Charles. BoxRec is your friend!

                  The 3 times that Usyk came in over 200lbs were the same three times he didn't have to cut down to 200 to make CW. What a coincidence!

                  Stats don't lie. Usyk is bigger than Louis.
                  Last edited by kafkod; 10-19-2021, 05:26 AM.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by billeau2 View Post

                    Oh come on... Louis is built like Usyk... give an inch, take an inch... If Louis had felt it prudent he could have come into a fight in his prime weighing more, fighters did not want the weight. Their frames are similar, Louis was maybe the thicker of the two.
                    Louis felt it prudent to come in around 200lb because that was his best fighting weight and, unlike Usyk, he never needed to cut weight for a weigh in.

                    Louis looked awesome and had his best performances at 200 - give or take a couple of pounds. Usyk, who is taller and longer than Joe, looked awesome and just had his career best win at 221lbs. Clearly, Usyk is naturally bigger than Louis.
                    Last edited by kafkod; 10-19-2021, 05:40 AM.

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                    • #50
                      This thread is what got op banned?

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