Willie Pep better defense than Floyd or Pernell? Bull.

[RodBarker]

Jab has a point, fighters back then faught 15 rounds. Today we have fighters like Clottey, Cotto, Taylor who get tired before the 10th round. Ali was able to go 15 rounds with HIGH activity. Fighters back then were better conditioned.

10 rounds 100 rounds 20 rounds 15 rounds , dont matter what matters is the pace and out put ,, how can they be better conditioned when they didnt have the knowledge of nutrition and training the human body that they have today , use a bit of common sense in this , all records are broken if you think the fighters of 50 years ago are as good its gonna get your dreaming .

There is a key difference between most other sports and boxing: weight classes. Offensive lineman in football...much bigger.

Centers in Basketball? No comparison in size generally.

A welterweight? Still a welterweight (ok, maybe a Jr. Middle with day before weigh-ins).

Further, what source indicates more death now? What sources they are might point to more dangerous gloves with plastic insides rather than horsehair.

Mate I can tell you have never conditioned anything , weight class has nothing to with what level a human can be conditioned too , they are bigger faster and stronger today than ever before even in the same weight class because they have a more refined fighter that is bigger for being the same weight , have a look at the science applied to Hopkins thats why he has be able to do what has at his age , you will see in the modern era fighters performing at top level and be 5-6 years older than before the 50s , its because of science and better conditioning .

.

[crold1]

10 rounds 100 rounds 20 rounds 15 rounds , dont matter what matters is the pace and out put ,, how can they be better conditioned when they didnt have the knowledge of nutrition and training the human body that they have today , use a bit of common sense in this , all records are broken if you think the fighters of 50 years ago are as good its gonna get your dreaming .



Mate I can tell you have never conditioned anything , weight class has nothing to with what level a human can be conditioned too , they are bigger faster and stronger today than ever before even in the same weight class because they have a more refined fighter that is bigger for being the same weight , have a look at the science applied to Hopkins thats why he has be able to do what has at his age , you will see in the modern era fighters performing at top level and be 5-6 years older than before the 50s , its because of science and better conditioning .

.

You selectively leave out that they have half to a third of as many fights these days, and far fewer against quality foes.

[RodBarker]

You selectively leave out that they have half to a third of as many fights these days, and far fewer against quality foes.

I dont selectively leave out anything , its a forum not a book we are writing , the reason they had more fights back then was the level of comp was not as high as it is today when your on top of the sport , they were more raw back then and just fought they had a tougher constitution because of the hard times they lived in but as athletes its a world away from what they know today , Robinsons career of 140 odd fights could be condensed into Mosleys as far as level of competition goes , today like Ive been trying to tell you is more of a F1 standard , its more refined more demanding more precise , when you have a fights like Vasquez Marquez , and JMM Pac , you just cant go to the well that many times a year coming of fights like those without loosing a piece of your soul , if you are fighting bums like Joe Louis did you can fight every month just like he did , there are lots of elements to the fight game thats are not so apparent on face value .

[RodBarker]

[

Further, what source indicates more death now? What sources they are might point to more dangerous gloves with plastic insides rather than horsehair.

You can work it out but its all here concerning ring deaths .

http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_b_0700.htm

[JAB5239]

Conditioning wise not a chance mate , science has jumped light years since the 30 to 50s in terms of sports nutrition and exercise they didnt even have a refrigerator and drank rusty water for iron supplement , for absolute proof of the conditioning improvements today you only need to to cross reference to all other sport where todays athletes have smashed all records from the 30s - 50s ,

Records have been beaten because of equipment and playing conditions. Golfers have better clubs and fairways to play on. Swimmer have suits that are proven to make them swim faster. Football has lighter equipment and artificial or manicured turf. Baseball has smaller fields and juiced balls. Skiing has better ski's and aerodynamic clothing. In track and field the track surface is always evolving giving it competitors advantages the athletes from other era's never had. The list goes on and on.

I thinks its being a little bit head in the sand to think boxing has it own rules above all sports its fairer to say boxing must reflect other sport , dont be confused with 20 rounds of standing around in the past to the pace of todays fights and the power that goes along with the pace , more deaths have been in the modern era because the fighters are too put it bluntly more deadly .

Its a myth that fighters who fought more rounds threw less punches. all you have to do is watch fights from the 40's, 50's and 60's etc. to see how much more active they were.

I doubt there are any more deaths in boxing today compared to past era's. If it seems that way its because there is better record keeping today and EVERYTHING is more widely reported.

But anyway its **** we will never know .

This is something we can agree on my friend.

[switch44]

Pernell Whitaker has the greatest defensive skill in my opinion.

[JAB5239]

Jab has a point, fighters back then faught 15 rounds. Today we have fighters like Clottey, Cotto, Taylor who get tired before the 10th round. Ali was able to go 15 rounds with HIGH activity. Fighters back then were better conditioned.

Can you even try to imagine ANY heavyweight today setting a pace like Joe Frazier did against Ali in the first fight with his given style?

[RightCross94]

In my opinion fighters from before the 20's etc were quite primitive and wouldn't do well today. There was much more grappling, a much slower pace and not much emphasis on finesse. Many of them were tough bastards, but not really good boxers.

When fights became shorter, less emphasis was placed on grappling, fighting slowly, and trying to out last your opponent. Smart footwork began to be employed, techniques became less rugged and sloppy and more sharp and refined. Tunney and Kid Chocolate were among the first smart movers. Now i know Gans was a good fighter who didnt brawl and slug and tended to box, but he still did it in the way that suited his era, slow paced, clinched a lot, and relied on toughness a lot.

Around the mid to late 20's early 30's as i said, you began to see more intelligent boxers with better overall technique and more stylish movers. From then on, I think most of the top fighters then could compete with today, with the only real disdvantage being that many of them would be smaller for their weightclasses than the fighters today because of different weigh in times and improved diets.

And i suppose a few may be disadvantaged strength wise with good weight programs available today, but fighters back then did lots of calisthenics which are nearly if not just as effective.

[JAB5239]

In my opinion fighters from before the 20's etc were quite primitive and wouldn't do well today. There was much more grappling, a much slower pace and not much emphasis on finesse. Many of them were tough bastards, but not really good boxers.

When fights became shorter, less emphasis was placed on grappling, fighting slowly, and trying to out last your opponent. Smart footwork began to be employed, techniques became less rugged and sloppy and more sharp and refined. Tunney and Kid Chocolate were among the first smart movers. Now i know Gans was a good fighter who didnt brawl and slug and tended to box, but he still did it in the way that suited his era, slow paced, clinched a lot, and relied on toughness a lot.

Around the mid to late 20's early 30's as i said, you began to see more intelligent boxers and movers. From then on, I think most of the top fighters then could compete with today, with the only real disdvantage being that many of them would be smaller for their weightclasses than the fighters today because of different weigh in times and improved diets.

The talent level went up because of the popularity of the sport during those years and others. The more people you have in any particular sport, the better and more complex the competition will be. Boxing is no different.

[RightCross94]

The talent level went up because of the popularity of the sport during those years and others. The more people you have in any particular sport, the better and more complex the competition will be. Boxing is no different.

fair point....