MMA fighters can't fight and that sport won't last much longer.

[TMLT87]

''Advanced''

AKA, when a person stumbles off balance and the other pounces.

Glorified street fights

No, more like this

You must live in a crazy ****ing place if the street fights there are full of black belts, olympians, K-1 GP winners etc.

[Marchegiano]

No, more like this

You must live in a crazy ****ing place if the street fights there are full of black belts, olympians, K-1 GP winners etc.

Well, tbf to him, Winklejohn's story is some **** like he got picked on so went to TMA and learned how to fight then got in street fights so opened a gym, and he trained a lot of those MMA guys.

So, stone's throw from street fighting garbage. Trained by street fighting garbage who wore bandannas, finger-less gloves, and wranglers just like everyone else who thought they were badasses in the 80s. Like he came from ****ing Streets of Rage bud.

Ronda got taught to punch by a dude with no punching credentials....turns out she can't punch

McNugget is in the same boat. Got taught boxing by a leprechaun....and so can not box for **** all.


Olympics is ams

K-1 had a lot of fixed fights

I can buy a black belt.

Not saying I don't appreciate MMA, but, MMA being successful in MMA has done little to have me buy into their excuses. It's not MMA boxing, it's just ****ty boxing. It's not it looks different because they have to protect kicks and takedowns, we have that history, it looks similar because jabs is jabs in history. Looks different in MMA because MMA doesn't bother with worth a **** trainers.

Franky of Cameroon is trained by a man who knows how to punch, proper credentials, doesn't need **** all else to be champion either.

And to be fair to the disciplines in MMA; never seen a former K-1 in MMA as good as Remmy. Never seen kickboxing in MMA on Remmy's level. Maybe that has more to do with guys like Reem, one of my favs actually, being an MMA guy who used his size and roids to win in K-1? Purely from a purist technical perspective Remmy was far better than MMA kickboxing has displayed.

I see great practitioners of Shotokan. Those guys can punch, they got kicks too, never seen the MMA version look as good as the legit version.



All-in-all when you've a mix of clowns training athletes to see what might work you end up with **** that never happens in any other combat sport because it's ****ing suicide becoming staples in MMA. Like back hands, no one else does them because they're ****ing useless and MMA wouldn't do that useless **** either if they were trained by guys worth a **** rather than *******s out of their depth with made up credentials.

[TMLT87]

Olympics is ams

K-1 had a lot of fixed fights

I can buy a black belt.

All wrestling (unless its WWE) and judo is ams.

What fixed K-1 fights were Reem, Cro cop, Saki et al in?

are you saying the BJJ black belts in MMA are not actually legitimate black belts? I mean, theres been plenty of ADCC champions too.

Franky of Cameroon is trained by a man who knows how to punch, proper credentials .

Ngannous boxing is not great technically even by MMA standards, hes heavily reliant on his power, size and athleticism. Come on...


tenor.gif?itemid=17444859.gif


Prime Kharitanov, AA, JDS, Cro Cop etc had better technical boxing as far as MMA HWs go.

doesn't need **** all else to be champion either

Did you not see the part of that fight where he defended a takedown, took Stipes back and almost ended it from there? in the first fight he was taken down 6 times and on his back for 15 of 25 mins, and he'd already been fighting in MMA professionally for 4 years at that point. No pure boxer is defending 72% of takedown attempts in the UFC and surviving off their back for 15 minutes vs ****ing Stipe.

And to be fair to the disciplines in MMA; never seen a former K-1 in MMA as good as Remmy. Never seen kickboxing in MMA on Remmy's level. Maybe that has more to do with guys like Reem, one of my favs actually, being an MMA guy who used his size and roids to win in K-1? Purely from a purist technical perspective Remmy was far better than MMA kickboxing has displayed.

I see great practitioners of Shotokan. Those guys can punch, they got kicks too, never seen the MMA version look as good as the legit version.

This argument can go around in circles. You wont see boxing like Canelos but he'd get his legs destroyed in MMA, you wont see kickboxing like Remmys but he'd get taken down and destroyed in MMA, you wont see wrestling like Karelins but he'd get knocked out or tapped out in MMA. So these MMA guys are apparently simultaneously **** at everything AND the best fighters on the planet.


Reem was not the most technical kickboxer but the fact remains, when he and Brock fought it was a K1 GP winner vs a division 1 national HW wrestling champion, under a rulset that allowed the entirety of the kickboxing and wrestling techniques to be used plus a bunch of other **** besides. You are not gonna see that anywhere else.

Remember Semmy was an MMA guy originally too, and he was ****ing dominant when he moved to K1. Sure he wasnt the most technical but if you win you win.

Like back hands, no one else does them because they're ****ing useless

You mean like spinning back fists? low percentage but they absolutely do work in MMA with 4oz gloves. You see them in kickboxing occasionally as well.

[Marchegiano]

I appreciate you taking your time and posting so thoroughly.

[QUOTE=TMLT87;n30859933]

All wrestling (unless its WWE) and judo is ams.

Yeah, exactly, not real sports.

What fixed K-1 fights were Reem, Cro cop, Saki et al in?

The first time the media ran those stories was back in the Pride era I believe. K-1 was caught all up in that ****s. Last time was a few years back when goodridge was claiming most of his career was fixed. Both, I assume, are fairly easy to look up, if you struggle let me know and I'll find articles.

No, I don't think Alistair, Mirko, or Gokhan were part of it but I don't know for sure either.

are you saying the BJJ black belts in MMA are not actually legitimate black belts? I mean, theres been plenty of ADCC champions too.

I'm saying colored belt rankings don't actually exist, there is no sanctioning body or official anything, and it's all namesake. So, yeah, okay Gracie BJJ BB, that's something I guess...What it means is you're good enough for the Gracies to put their name on you, of course that's an honor, but a ranking in a TMA it is not. Not even a league, the black belt means next to nothing, Gracie's name means a little something but that something is subjective, not a rank, not a position, not a credential, just a vouch.

Ngannous boxing is not great technically even by MMA standards, hes heavily reliant on his power, size and athleticism. Come on...

Ain't no one in MMA technically great. He's got a proper striking coach and won't be let down by his striking though. The other examples were fighters who should have stuck to what they knew and accepted they're **** at what their trainers are guessing.

tenor.gif?itemid=17444859.gif


Prime Kharitanov, AA, JDS, Cro Cop etc had better technical boxing as far as MMA HWs go.

Ignoshav? i forget how to spell it, the scorpion was an underrated tactician too. Boxing doesn't require technicality for training. You can train punchers to be better at being a puncher...technically better, sure, I bet Franky'd KO them though.

Did you not see the part of that fight where he defended a takedown, took Stipes back and almost ended it from there? in the first fight he was taken down 6 times and on his back for 15 of 25 mins, and he'd already been fighting in MMA professionally for 4 years at that point. No pure boxer is defending 72% of takedown attempts in the UFC and surviving on their back for 15 minutes vs ****ing Stipe.

Takedown defense is a boxing technique. James Wharton was an undefeated boxer who made a big show of Hammer Lane using his takedowns and throws....he's about the only fella I can tell you did real well that route too....cause everyone else had TDD. Didn't have to learn 'rasslin', just a bit of BKB.

This argument can go around in circles. You wont see boxing like Canelos but he'd get his legs destroyed in MMA, you wont see kickboxing like Remmys but he'd get taken down and destroyed in MMA, you wont see wrestling like Karelins but he'd get knocked out or tapped out in MMA. So these MMA guys are apparently simultaneously **** at everything AND the best fighters on the planet.

See my above response. Y'all are assuming and making up what you think how **** should go. Boxing as you know it wasn't always just about punching the head and body. Jack Dempsey was cut from a cleeted kick in his MW title defense, Paddy Ryan won his title off a slam, there's plenty of history for what happens when you have a sport that allows any form of technique to be used....it became about punching because they're who won.

So on one hand I've fellas like you who have nothing to site or that can illustrate your point and on the other hand like 100+ years of history....hmm. I do wonder which is more reliable....hmm...

Reem was not the most technical kickboxer but the fact remains, when he and Brock fought it was a K1 GP winner vs a division 1 national HW wrestling champion, under a rulset that allowed the entirety of the kickboxing and wrestling ruleset plus a bunch of other **** besides. You are not gonna see that anywhere else.

True, that's why I like MMA.

Remember Semmy was an MMA guy originally too, and he was ****ing dominant when he moved to K1. Sure he wasnt the most technical but if you win you win.

Yes but was he technically sound? He was just huge. He fought like an amateur because he could get away with it having like a foot on the other guys even when they're tall boys themselves.

You mean like spinning back fists? low percentage but they absolutely do work in MMA with 4oz gloves.

How long have you been watching? That **** might have passed it's prime but they definitely did throw back fists a lot just a few years back.

No, it works for the same reason spinning kicks work in taekwando; both playing the same game.


It's indirect energy. Something TMA and MMA loves but has no place outside of their world of pansy assin and bull****ting. You don't see that punch in the punch sport not because the gloves are bigger. Honestly, you guys need to get off of that. If a boxer can't punch through their glove they can't punch anyway. They don't do it because they're in a sport with direct energy punches, so they're harder to hurt and there is no amount of energy a man can make to turn what is basically a ***** slap into a jab let alone a power punch. It's a weak punch that won't do anything to anyone well conditioned for boxing.

Or to address that differently, they didn't even wear gloves in bare knuckle and it was seen as a useless punch then. Maybe it's more only useful when you playing grab ass like the rest of MMA's unchecked grabassin.

















Lastly, y'all took me too seriously. I had to force this one quite a bit

[Dakuwaqa]

Marchigiano talking all those facts. Spinning back fists look unbelievably ridiculous. Only works on those glass jawed slow wrestlers have no idea what they're doing on their feet.

[TMLT87]

Yeah, exactly, not real sports.

The olympics are the peak of wrestling based sports. There are no other wrestlers or judoka hidden away somewhere else that are better at wrestling or judo. Henry Cejudo was literally the best wrestler in the world at his weight class.

Takedown defense is a boxing technique. James Wharton was an undefeated boxer who made a big show of Hammer Lane using his takedowns and throws....he's about the only fella I can tell you did real well that route too....cause everyone else had TDD. Didn't have to learn 'rasslin', just a bit of BKB.

See my above response. Y'all are assuming and making up what you think how **** should go. Boxing as you know it wasn't always just about punching the head and body. Jack Dempsey was cut from a cleeted kick in his MW title defense, Paddy Ryan won his title off a slam, there's plenty of history for what happens when you have a sport that allows any form of technique to be used....it became about punching because they're who won.

So on one hand I've fellas like you who have nothing to site or that can illustrate your point and on the other hand like 100+ years of history....hmm. I do wonder which is more reliable....hmm...

Lol this is bat**** insane.

Yes but was he technically sound? He was just huge. He fought like an amateur because he could get away with it having like a foot on the other guys even when they're tall boys themselves.

Does it matter? if hes beating people hes beating them. The guy won the highest prize in HW kickboxing while simultaneously fighting in high level MMA.

It's indirect energy. Something TMA and MMA loves but has no place outside of their world of pansy assin and bull****ting. You don't see that punch in the punch sport not because the gloves are bigger. Honestly, you guys need to get off of that. If a boxer can't punch through their glove they can't punch anyway. They don't do it because they're in a sport with direct energy punches, so they're harder to hurt and there is no amount of energy a man can make to turn what is basically a ***** slap into a jab let alone a power punch. It's a weak punch that won't do anything to anyone well conditioned for boxing.

Nope, it really is because the gloves are smaller, its also because theres no counts after a knockdown, also because theres a million additional elements in MMA making it easier to throw weird **** rather than your opponent knowing they're only going to be hit above the waist and only with punches. Another part of it is people will often throw it if they end up off balance and/or partially exposing their back in order to prevent an opponent from rushing in and grabbing them, not a factor in boxing.

Nothing to do with direct vs indirect energy, or boxers being "harder to hurt". A kick or flying knee in the face is far more powerful than anything boxers get hit with.

I had to force this one quite a bit

Agreed.

[TMLT87]

Anyway...


Between 1.2m and 1.5m buys for that ****show last weekend apparently. So the three biggest boxing PPVs since Floyd/Pac are a retired boxer vs an MMA fighter, Mike Tyson in an exhibition and a Youtuber vs a retired MMA fighter. And even with this desperate **** the UFC still massively outdraws boxing on PPV.

But hey guys MMA is a joke, not a real sport and wont last much longer lol.

[nubianpiye]

Anyway...


Between 1.2m and 1.5m buys for that ****show last weekend apparently. So the three biggest boxing PPVs since Floyd/Pac are a retired boxer vs an MMA fighter, Mike Tyson in an exhibition and a Youtuber vs a retired MMA fighter. And even with this desperate **** the UFC still massively outdraws boxing on PPV.

But hey guys MMA is a joke, not a real sport and wont last much longer lol.

You are intentionally dense and selective Joshua Povetkin, Joshua Klitscho, Joshua Ruiz 2, Joshua Parker all did over a million PPV also the biggest global star in boxing does not have his fights on PPV why are you deliberately ignoring that to support your dunce argument and your flash in the pan already dying sport?

Canelo fights exclusively on DAZN or he would also just like Joshhua repeatedly be surpassing 1 Million buys.

March 2017: David Haye vs. Tony Bellew – 1,592,000 29 April 2017:
Anthony Joshua vs. Wladimir Klitschko – 1,631,000

31 March 2018: Anthony Joshua vs. Joseph Parker – 1,832,000 5 May 2018:
David Haye vs. Tony Bellew II – 775,000

22 September 2018: Anthony Joshua vs. Alexander Povetkin – 1,247,000

7 December 2019: Andy Ruiz Jr. vs. Anthony Joshua II – 1,575,000

If you use this content, you legally agree to credit World Boxing News and backlink to our story Full list of UK Pay Per View boxing event sales (1966 – 2020) | World Boxing News

THat's how you know this dunce is a ***** and that's with the second biggest star in boxing if Canelo was on PPV instead of DAZN he'd put up similar or better numbers.

don’t forget the ksi fight and the Jake Paul fight another two million plus sellers you can laugh at them as amatuer fighters and YouTube stars that’s the same way i look at ufc

[TMLT87]

You are intentionally dense and selective Joshua Povetkin, Joshua Klitscho, Joshua Ruiz 2, Joshua Parker all did over a million PPV

On UK PPV for 19.99 (iirc 25 for the Ruiz rematch). The biggest claimed number for any of his fights by far was AJ/Parker at 1.8m which at that price point would have generated as much as a UFC PPV doing a little over 700k. I'm not saying he isnt a huge star, hes probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest combat sports star today, but if you're gonna bring up his numbers this needs to be taken into account.

also the biggest global star in boxing does not have his fights on PPV why are you deliberately ignoring that to support your dunce argument

For you this is actually a fair point. He was a big PPV draw in America and him not being on PPV anymore hasnt helped, but even when he was the UFC was still doing much better than boxing in that area. I dont think he'd have broken a mil a single time on regular PPV facing the guys hes been fighting on DAZN anyway.

Btw, are we both in agreement that Conor is a much bigger star than Canelo, who you yourself claimed is boxings biggest star?

flash in the pan already dying sport?

Can you give any real reasons why you have this perspective?

Anyone who follows combat sports and is being objective about the situation can plainly see the direction things have been going in for well over a decade now, and its a one way journey. . Boxing up until the early 00s absolutely dwarfed all other combat sports by practically every metric, now its arguably not even the biggest. Its never going to regain that lost ground and will almost certainly lose more as time goes on because MMA attracts more young people and more new fans in general as its a better overall product that nowadays (unlike the 00s) gets major mainstream coverage and exposure.

Before the 2010s mainstream media was much more comfortable with promoting/covering boxing due to it being an old "respectable" establishment sport in comparison to "cage fighting", it tooks years of major growth independent of their help in order for them to finally accept it. Nowadays MMA is completely embraced by mainstream media and is a normalized part of the sporting landscape. Lastly the pull of nostalgia with boxing is fading over time as those aformentioned days of boxing being the only game in town get more and more distant, the golden ages sink further and further into the past and the people that remember them get older and older and die. Meanwhile the younger people of today are the tv execs, media moguls etc of tomorrow, or at least the middle aged men waxing nostalgic about fights that happened when they were young the way boxing fans do about Hagler/Hearns, the thrilla etc etc, and they're growing up with the UFC. Its just common sense where things are going. And I dont say this in a "haha boxing is dying" gloating way either, because i'm a boxing fan too, it had a long run at the top, it wont actually "die" and theres always going to be an AJ/Fury, Floyd/Pac, Canelo/GGG type fight coming along every few years that gets milked to death and spikes interest for a bit, but if you think things will ever go back to how they were you're going to be sorely disappointed.

[nubianpiye]

On UK PPV for 19.99 (iirc 25 for the Ruiz rematch). The biggest claimed number for any of his fights by far was AJ/Parker at 1.8m which at that price point would have generated as much as a UFC PPV doing a little over 700k. I'm not saying he isnt a huge star, hes probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest combat sports star today, but if you're gonna bring up his numbers this needs to be taken into account.



For you this is actually a fair point. He was a big PPV draw in America and him not being on PPV anymore hasnt helped, but even when he was the UFC was still doing much better than boxing in that area. I dont think he'd have broken a mil a single time on regular PPV facing the guys hes been fighting on DAZN anyway.

Btw, are we both in agreement that Conor is a much bigger star than Canelo, who you yourself claimed is boxings biggest star?



Can you give any real reasons why you have this perspective?

Anyone who follows combat sports and is being objective about the situation can plainly see the direction things have been going in for well over a decade now, and its a one way journey. . Boxing up until the early 00s absolutely dwarfed all other combat sports by practically every metric, now its arguably not even the biggest. Its never going to regain that lost ground and will almost certainly lose more as time goes on because MMA attracts more young people and more new fans in general as its a better overall product that nowadays (unlike the 00s) gets major mainstream coverage and exposure.

Before the 2010s mainstream media was much more comfortable with promoting/covering boxing due to it being an old "respectable" establishment sport in comparison to "cage fighting", it tooks years of major growth independent of their help in order for them to finally accept it. Nowadays MMA is completely embraced by mainstream media and is a normalized part of the sporting landscape. Lastly the pull of nostalgia with boxing is fading over time as those aformentioned days of boxing being the only game in town get more and more distant, the golden ages sink further and further into the past and the people that remember them get older and older and die. Meanwhile the younger people of today are the tv execs, media moguls etc of tomorrow, or at least the middle aged men waxing nostalgic about fights that happened when they were young the way boxing fans do about Hagler/Hearns, the thrilla etc etc, and they're growing up with the UFC. Its just common sense where things are going. And I dont say this in a "haha boxing is dying" gloating way either, because i'm a boxing fan too, it had a long run at the top, it wont actually "die" and theres always going to be an AJ/Fury, Floyd/Pac, Canelo/GGG type fight coming along every few years that gets milked to death and spikes interest for a bit, but if you think things will ever go back to how they were you're going to be sorely disappointed.

You just keep repeating the same fallacies over and over no one can see anything joshua is selling that many ppv fights in the U.K. because that’s where he comes from canelo globally is a much bigger star than Connor as is joshua just because Connor sold in the U.S. he does not have the fan base that canelo has in Mexico or that joshua has in the U.K. in England joshua is a staple in adverts he’s regularly on shows like Graham Norton Connor is not.

The thing is you’ve created this fairy tale world based in the U.S. market and conveniently gave an excuse to explain away every boxing success millions tune in to watch a boxing ppv and you say well they’re only 19.99 well since Connor is from Ireland why isn’t he doing that much in the U.K.? Canelo sets records before going on to a subscription service you spout some other nonsense and repeat the same dumb tropes that you started with. shimming gets 300 million viewers it say oh well it’s China.

Recently triller, Dazn, pbc, sky and soon you’ll be able to add zuffa boxing all companies pumping billions into the sport of boxing why do you think they are doing this? You combine the money pumped into boxing by these companies with the 4 billion it cost to buy the ufc and it surpasses it. Why jump into boxing? Because boxing has and continues to be the premier combat sport the only reason you gave your deluded opinion is because Dana and a few other deluded ufc red necks told you so.

i remember when oscar was fighting Dana used to say when oscar retired boxing is done and we take over. Then Floyd and pac came then it became when they retire boxing is done and we take over, then aj, canelo and fury come through now it’s well they only sell millions of ppv’s in their own countries boxing has a variety of upcoming stars as well Ryan garcia, tank, haney, Stevenson, Teo Lopez when they cross over and do millions ufc fans will go back to saying when they retire we’ll take over someone new always appears ufc only star Connor is beating retirement where all the next stats come from?

I have the opinion that UFC is in decline because it's growth has halted dramatically from whatr it was anyone can see that. And instead of MMA fans trying to expand by piggybacking off the more popular combatr sport they came out with this idiotic approach that has alienated a potential fan base.