hagler vs jones

[marvdave]

No way in hell does Jones ko or hurt Hagler. The fight is tough for me to pick becuase I'm biased for Hagler. I'll try anyway. Jones' speed and elusivness would be a big problem for Hagler. Hagler is an underrated boxer who unfairly gets judged on his fight with Leonard. He would present problems for Jones with the southpaw style and his acuurate punching. Jones rarly got hit in his 160 prime, but then again he rarely fought guys with a heart beat. As I recall, his fight with Hopkins was 116-112?

I see Jones running the entire fight similar to what Leonard did, The difference I would see in Jones is that he wasn't as cerebral as SRL and would stop to punch on occasion with Marv. My heart tells me close fight with Hagler winning on late TKO.

My head tells me Jones by close split decision while running from Hagler the entire fight.

[tyson]

Hagler 8 times out of 10.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

Well I'll tell you what Buster, you ARE blind if you don't recognize Jones' greatness in his prime, just like I'd be the same if I said something that amazingly ****** about Hagler.

Hagler is a beast, but it doesn't matter how tough you are if you cannot IMPOSE that toughness, and with Jones' speed I doubt Hagler would be able to impose it enough to win. Hagler was not a one-punch ko guy and Jones is bigger than Hagler, and would get hit no where NEAR enough to get KO'd. You must have images of Hearns getting waxed...that won't apply to Roy.

[oldgringo]

Well I'll tell you what Buster, you ARE blind if you don't recognize Jones' greatness in his prime, just like I'd be the same if I said something that amazingly ****** about Hagler.

Hagler is a beast, but it doesn't matter how tough you are if you cannot IMPOSE that toughness, and with Jones' speed I doubt Hagler would be able to impose it enough to win. Hagler was not a one-punch ko guy and Jones is bigger than Hagler, and would get hit no where NEAR enough to get KO'd. You must have images of Hearns getting waxed...that won't apply to Roy.

You must have images of the older, worn out Hagler. He was a great counter puncher, had a great jab, threw punches from all angles, and could box/brawl with the best of them. Jones would have to be perfect to outpoint Hagler. Jones fought no one near Hagler status in that prime of his. Toney was rather unmotivated and Hopkins was nowhere near his prime.

[Super_Lightweight]

lol

Hagler never faced anyone like Roy either, let's not forget. No one as fast or with the amount of footspeed and pure athleticism. Ray comes close, but not there.

Let me add, I do know the Hagler of his prime. Hagler is one of my favorite all-time fighters. However, anyone who thinks he would beat the taller and bigger and faster Jones by OUTBOXING him is simply off his rocker. No way that would happen. He would HAVE to get close and rough him up.

Toney was rather unmotivated and Hopkins was nowhere near his prime.

These statements are exaggerations and much to simplified. Toney would not beat Jones in his prime just due to style. Toney was unmotivated for many fights in his career...that's JAMES TONEY. Saying that Toney was dehydrated is a more legitimate excuse, but given his history vs other fighters not as good as Roy, Roy beats Toney in their primes every time.

As for Hopkins, he was definitely near his prime when he fought Jones. He certainly was in his prime physically, but did not have the boxing knowledge at that age that he did at 35. In any case, Hopkins was not "nowhere near his prime", that's simply too much of an exaggeration. I agree he was not at his best, but the win is still very noteworthy.

I wouldn't try to take anything away from Hagler by using revisionist history and try to say he only beat a man smaller than him in Hearns. It was still a good win.

[jujitsujn]

I agree that Jones would win this fight easily. That's not a knock on Hagler. Jones would neutralize Haglers pressing attack, Jones was a pretty good inside fighter, and knew how to keep safe in there. I don't know if he would stop Hagler, but it is not crazy to think he could be put down with a flash knockdown. Jones' speed is just a bit too much.

[oldgringo]

Hagler never faced anyone like Roy either, let's not forget. No one as fast or with the amount of footspeed and pure athleticism. Ray comes close, but not there.

Let me add, I do know the Hagler of his prime. Hagler is one of my favorite all-time fighters. However, anyone who thinks he would beat the taller and bigger and faster Jones by OUTBOXING him is simply off his rocker. No way that would happen. He would HAVE to get close and rough him up.



These statements are exaggerations and much to simplified. Toney would not beat Jones in his prime just due to style. Toney was unmotivated for many fights in his career...that's JAMES TONEY. Saying that Toney was dehydrated is a more legitimate excuse, but given his history vs other fighters not as good as Roy, Roy beats Toney in their primes every time.

As for Hopkins, he was definitely near his prime when he fought Jones. He certainly was in his prime physically, but did not have the boxing knowledge at that age that he did at 35. In any case, Hopkins was not "nowhere near his prime", that's simply too much of an exaggeration. I agree he was not at his best, but the win is still very noteworthy.

I wouldn't try to take anything away from Hagler by using revisionist history and try to say he only beat a man smaller than him in Hearns. It was still a good win.

No doubt Hagler never faced a fighter like Roy. Leonard was weaker and a bit less physically gifted...however he was much more clever and more ring savvy.

If you knew about your boy Roy you'd be able to admit that his technique is extremely sloppy. He backs up off balance and often left his hands down around his waist. Now i'm not saying Hagler would outbox Roy...but he could certainly box with him. He'd make him pay for many of his mistakes that lesser fighters could not. Theres no doubt that Hagler would have to press Roy...Hagler was one of the best pressure fighters ever...his workrate was menacing. He wouldn't just throw himself at Roy...he'd squander his very overlooked boxing ability if he did that.

My statements about Toney and Hopkins were vague but true. I don't think a prime Toney would beat a prime Roy either...unless of course he just went for broke and caught him with something nasty. Toney was very unmotivated for their fight however, and although that's Toney's thing, it didn't help his chances in that fight. The Hopkins that beat Trinidad was your "prime" Hopkins. Half of what makes Hopkins so great is his in-ring savvy and knowledge of the game. When he fought Roy he was still somewhat inexperienced. Roy beat him 8-4...had you shifted time around and made the fight in their respective primes then you'd see a much closer fight. Those are Roy's 2 most notable wins...and as good as they are, they kinda came for the wrong time for the other guys.

A 12 round fight would certainly benefit Roy. Being that you just don't hurt or tire Hagler, Roy could certainly do his thing and last to see it go to the cards. 15 rounds is almost definitely too much for Roy to stay away and avoid taking punishment. I still say that Hagler would slowly sap Roy's energy and take him out by the later rounds in a 12 round bout...either way you look at it, it'd be a grind for both guys. Anyone who says this is an easy fight either way is delusional.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

I agree with you on some points. I do not think it would be easy for either man. I agree that Jones' technique was "different". It was not "textbook" but it was pretty artful and VERY effective.

Jones has great stamina in his prime and his ability to avoid punches was awesome, one of the best ever, so I just don't think Hagler would be able to land the punches neccessary to TKO him.

As far as Hopkins goes, I don't neccessarily think a rematch with Roy would have been a toss-up. I think people underestimate Roy's ability to adapt, and also the fact that Roy certainly learned some more things in his career post-Hopkins as well. Certainly he did not gain as much knowledge and use it as Hopkins did in the following years, but he had to have gained something. Personally, I just think the fight LOOKS different, but ends with the same score. It's a more organized fight, with both fighters looking better, and Roy coasting less and still winning 8-4. That's just my opinion.

I don't know if I could pick Hagler to beat Roy, and I don't know that you could pick Roy to beat Hagler, but that's ok. I think we can agree however that it would be a fight worth seeing and anyone who thinks Roy would win "easily" is more than a little off and obviously simplifying things way too much.

[oldgringo]

I don't know if I could pick Hagler to beat Roy, and I don't know that you could pick Roy to beat Hagler, but that's ok. I think we can agree however that it would be a fight worth seeing and anyone who thinks Roy would win "easily" is more than a little off and obviously simplifying things way too much.

Agreed. It'd be a great fight.

[.::EnRiQuE::.]

close fight. its kinda hard to call but i'd have Hagler winning by a REAL REAL close decision