Tyson vs Lewis Primes

[Benny Leonard]

That's why he was saying to Giachetti "Richie get me off the God damn floor" because people where holding him down?

Poet

When did he say that?

Time?

[StarshipTrooper]

Disagree: Holmes wasn't getting up because he was in dream-land. Tyson wasn't getting up either but he could have gotten up.

Again, he was in dreamland against Shavers and still got up. Being in his prime meant he was able to survive without taking a beating.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

When did he say that?

Time?

Since they didn't have a mic jammed down Larry's throat while he was on the canvas you aren't going to hear him saying it. People who right on top of him reported him saying it.

Poet

[them_apples]

Saying a fighter is past it isn't the same as saying he's "shot". A fighter can be past-prime without being completely shot and still clearly not be the fighter he once was. If you're going to use that kind of standard when describing Tyson's post-Rooney career you need to give other fighters the same consideration. You can't have one rule for Tyson and another for everyone else.

Poet

I understand this, hence why I think a Prime Holyfield beats a Prime mike as well. Many argue that Prime Mike would have one, but I don't see it.

Foremans an obvious pick as well due to his huge uppercuts and refusal to back up.

[them_apples]

Since they didn't have a mic jammed down Larry's throat while he was on the canvas you aren't going to hear him saying it. People who right on top of him reported him saying it.

Poet

I'd believe he wanted to get up, but in this occasion he would not have recovered. Shavers may pack more power then Mike, but Holmes only took one flush shot from him. Mike hit him with about 6 or 7 hard shots.

Had this been a younger Holmes his recovery would have been better, but you have to take into consideration how many shots Tyson was able to land in 4 rounds. During his prime he usually could do this effectively for about 7 rounds, then he'd slow down in the champion ship rounds.

Here is my main reason though, Holmes drops his left (probably helps him get leverage for his jab) By doing this he get's tagged by overhand rights, the same punch Shavers, Tyson, and Holyfield were landing on him. (Norton too?)

Prime or not, he was always susceptible to that punch.

[Benny Leonard]

Since they didn't have a mic jammed down Larry's throat while he was on the canvas you aren't going to hear him saying it. People who right on top of him reported him saying it.

Poet

Larry was out. He wasn't going to make the 10 count. His body was lying helplessly on the ground with his eyes shut...and when his team did get there, they were checking him out to see if he was alright. When he did finally get up, he was helped up and held up.

And if the Almighty God helped him back to his feet...Holmes may well have been buried that day.

[Benny Leonard]

Again, he was in dreamland against Shavers and still got up. Being in his prime meant he was able to survive without taking a beating.

Poet

Look at those two fights: How fast did Holmes get up against Shavers compared to Tyson?
And, look at how Holmes was lying in each knock down.


Look at the clock on the video: As soon as Holmes hits the canvas, pay attention to how much time goes by when knocked down by Tyson.

[them_apples]

Look at those two fights: How fast did Holmes get up against Shavers compared to Tyson?
And, look at how Holmes was lying in each knock down.


Look at the clock on the video: As soon as Holmes hits the canvas, pay attention to how much time goes by when knocked down by Tyson.

I think i need to rewatch the KO. I don't remember it being Ricky Hatton esque..

you got a link? perhaps you are right

[Benny Leonard]

I think i need to rewatch the KO. I don't remember it being Ricky Hatton esque..
you got a link? perhaps you are right

Page 25 has both videos: Tyson...Shavers.

Out for 10...not out for a month

[StarshipTrooper]

I'd believe he wanted to get up, but in this occasion he would not have recovered.

I do believe I said as much in an earlier post.

Shavers may pack more power then Mike, but Holmes only took one flush shot from him. Mike hit him with about 6 or 7 hard shots.

Had this been a younger Holmes his recovery would have been better, but you have to take into consideration how many shots Tyson was able to land in 4 rounds. During his prime he usually could do this effectively for about 7 rounds, then he'd slow down in the champion ship rounds.

The point is, though, that a prime Holmes wouldn't have been hit by that many flush shots in round 4 or any round for that matter. A fighter is considered past prime when his reflexes start to slide and while that has an impact on a lot of what a fighter does its biggest impact is on the ability of a fighter to avoid punches.

Here is my main reason though, Holmes drops his left (probably helps him get leverage for his jab) By doing this he get's tagged by overhand rights, the same punch Shavers, Tyson, and Holyfield were landing on him. (Norton too?)

Prime or not, he was always susceptible to that punch.

How many times did you see a prime Holmes get tagged REPEATEDLY by right hands in fight? I certainly can't recall any. To say a fighter is particularly susceptable to a punch would indicate that fighter getting tagged repeatedly with it not just one instance. This is similar to people going on about how a prime Ali was vulnerable to left hooks because Henry Cooper tagged him with one ONCE in their first fight.

Poet