Marquez Says Mayweather First, Then Pacquiao Trilogy

[GRUSTLER]

Mosley lost to Forrest as Forrest simply has his number. He lost to him in the amateurs as well. There's always that one guy who is simply going to kick your ass. We all have that guy in life, trust me.

Mosley lost to Winky as Winky was and still is much bigger than Shane, and his defense was problematic as hell for Shane(and everyone else not named Paul Williams). Shane doesn't do well against much bigger/taller guys than him, that much is for certain.

Mosley "lost" to Cotto(something I dispute, it was in NYC and Shane easily closed the last 3 rounds to earn a 1 point SD or a draw at worst), but there where two reasons Sugar Shane lost in my opinion to Cotto:

1. His jab ****** ass that fight. The flicker jab was flimsy and didn't get Cotto's respect. The Margarito-Mosley jab would have had the intended effect here.

2. Mosley had never seen Cotto box as well as he had that night. None of us had seen that actually up until that fight. Mosley was expecting the typical Cotto, and to Cotto's credit he showed a very respectable jab/boxing ability in that fight.

Shane Mosley definitely went in the ring and underestimated
Miguel Cotto because you can see his face when he hit Cotto
flush and didn't drop him. In all honesty, I'd rather see
Mosley/Cotto 2 then Floyd/Cotto or Mosley. All fights are
good but right now Shane/Cotto are the top two best
Welter Weights and they have unfinished business considering
Cotto beat Shane, Margarito beat Cotto and Shane beat Margarito.
They shoudl handle that.

[GRUSTLER]

I think you are confusing an accumulation of punches with 1 punch knockout power. He had just knocked Mayorga down before he caught him with that left hook and Vargas had taken about 300 punches to the face before he was knocked out. Thomas Hearns would be a perfect example of 1 punch knockout power.

Yes, Corley stung him but he was by no means on la-la street (like Cotto). Didnt see Castillo hurt him in either fight so if you could tell me a round or which fight I will look at it again. NOT once; I repeat NOT once in the Judah fight was Floyd hurt. Did his glove touch the canvas and it should have been scored a knockdown, I would say yes.

And as far as Mosley; I recall Forrest hit him so hard he all most made him **** in his trunks in the 2nd rd of their 1st fight. I was a big Mosley fan and I have to admit, Mosley was scared of Forrest in the 2nd fight. So yes he has been hurt and has and always have problem with boxers. If you put a fighter in a ring thats just going to come to Shane he will beat them everytime but if you put Mosley in with a boxer with Floyd's ring IQ he loses everytime. Why did Shane lose to Cotto? Because Cotto outboxed him. Do you honestly think if Cotto can outbox him Floyd cant?

I agree with you bruh! Mosley is trained in the Mexican art of fighting
just stand there and trade, you box him, then he is beatable.
I still have that Forrest/Mosley fight on tape in my house &
when Forrest had him in the corner wailing on him, Mosley screamed
out loud and never was comfortable after that accidental cut and
knock down. I always looked at Shane like he was supposed to be
where PBF is right now "CALLING SHOTS" a very talented fighter but
never really utilized his speed and talent to the fullest by boxing more.

[handler000]

Margarito was slow as Molasses and played into Mosley hands.
Floyd would make Mosley box and open himself up. One thing
I respect about Floyd is that he throws fighters off their game
plans and make them come after him and expose themselves
then Floyd picks them apart.

People can hate on Floyd all they want but there has not been a fighter in the last 20 years who can adapt to any style of fighting like Mayweather does in the middle of a fight PERIOD...

[mrosborne]

I think you are confusing an accumulation of punches with 1 punch knockout power. He had just knocked Mayorga down before he caught him with that left hook and Vargas had taken about 300 punches to the face before he was knocked out. Thomas Hearns would be a perfect example of 1 punch knockout power.

Yes, Corley stung him but he was by no means on la-la street (like Cotto). Didnt see Castillo hurt him in either fight so if you could tell me a round or which fight I will look at it again. NOT once; I repeat NOT once in the Judah fight was Floyd hurt. Did his glove touch the canvas and it should have been scored a knockdown, I would say yes.

And as far as Mosley; I recall Forrest hit him so hard he all most made him **** in his trunks in the 2nd rd of their 1st fight. I was a big Mosley fan and I have to admit, Mosley was scared of Forrest in the 2nd fight. So yes he has been hurt and has and always have problem with boxers. If you put a fighter in a ring thats just going to come to Shane he will beat them everytime but if you put Mosley in with a boxer with Floyd's ring IQ he loses everytime. Why did Shane lose to Cotto? Because Cotto outboxed him. Do you honestly think if Cotto can outbox him Floyd cant?

When I say one punch power, I mean that one power shot hit a guy and they simply did not get up once it did. Knocking someone down is one thing, getting laid out cold with one shot a la Duran-Hearns, Pacquiao-Hatton is another.

Mayweather's head was rocked back several times in the first Castillo fight, I want to say around round four to five, you can see Mayweather going back to the ropes each time and getting wailed on to the body. There wasn't any time he was close to going down, but he did get caught flush a couple times, not so much during the 2nd fight though. He did much better in that one.

Forrest is the only guy to date to hurt Mosley that I've seen. He couldn't knock him out though, but did stun him. I honestly believe that Mosley can OUTFIGHT Mayweather and KO him. Outbox? Probably not. I'm saying he has all the tools if anyone does if you had to say ok, I'm making the perfect fighter to beat FMJ, here's the ingredients.... and it's Sugar Shane Mosley.

[handler000]

I agree with you bruh! Mosley is trained in the Mexican art of fighting
just stand there and trade, you box him, then he is beatable.
I still have that Forrest/Mosley fight on tape in my house &
when Forrest had him in the corner wailing on him, Mosley screamed
out loud and never was comfortable after that accidental cut and
knock down. I always looked at Shane like he was supposed to be
where PBF is right now "CALLING SHOTS" a very talented fighter but
never really utilized his speed and talent to the fullest by boxing more.

I always thought it would be him and Mayweather battling it out for ring supremacy. But he should have left his father long ago. Shane always had that "killer" mentality but can only fight one way; he doesnt know how to adapt at all.

[handler000]

When I say one punch power, I mean that one power shot hit a guy and they simply did not get up once it did. Knocking someone down is one thing, getting laid out cold with one shot a la Duran-Hearns, Pacquiao-Hatton is another.

Mayweather's head was rocked back several times in the first Castillo fight, I want to say around round four to five, you can see Mayweather going back to the ropes each time and getting wailed on to the body. There wasn't any time he was close to going down, but he did get caught flush a couple times, not so much during the 2nd fight though. He did much better in that one.

Forrest is the only guy to date to hurt Mosley that I've seen. He couldn't knock him out though, but did stun him. I honestly believe that Mosley can OUTFIGHT Mayweather and KO him. Outbox? Probably not. I'm saying he has all the tools if anyone does if you had to say ok, I'm making the perfect fighter to beat FMJ, here's the ingredients.... and it's Sugar Shane Mosley.

I dont have a problem admitting Mosley has the best chin in the WW division. But OUTFIGHT Mayweather? It would never happen because Mayweather is too smart to stand there and let him swing for the fences. Mayweather would beat him by UD. He would constantly make SSM reset his feet and counter him like Lionel Richie "all night long"!!

[mrosborne]

I've really enjoyed tonight's discussions. Even though we disagree Grustler and handler000, you guys both make solid and valid points as boxing fans. This is what it's all about for followers of the sport of boxing. Green Karma is coming to both of you gentleman as a token of respect. I'm sure we will disagree much more in the future, but I don't mind as long as we keep it civil and support the sport of boxing.

Cheers.

[GRUSTLER]

When I say one punch power, I mean that one power shot hit a guy and they simply did not get up once it did. Knocking someone down is one thing, getting laid out cold with one shot a la Duran-Hearns, Pacquiao-Hatton is another.

Mayweather's head was rocked back several times in the first Castillo fight, I want to say around round four to five, you can see Mayweather going back to the ropes each time and getting wailed on to the body. There wasn't any time he was close to going down, but he did get caught flush a couple times, not so much during the 2nd fight though. He did much better in that one.

Forrest is the only guy to date to hurt Mosley that I've seen. He couldn't knock him out though, but did stun him. I honestly believe that Mosley can OUTFIGHT Mayweather and KO him. Outbox? Probably not. I'm saying he has all the tools if anyone does if you had to say ok, I'm making the perfect fighter to beat FMJ, here's the ingredients.... and it's Sugar Shane Mosley.

Mosley doesn't have the Boxing ability to make Mayweather feel
uncomfortable enough to play into Shane's hands. Floyd conditioning,
stamina, defense and skills alone would make it difficult for Mosley
unless Floyd got careless and tried to **** with Mosley which would
probally never happen. I can see Mosley getting tagged easily in
that fight and Floyd playing it safe by keeping Shane in the middle
and countering him.

[GRUSTLER]

I've really enjoyed tonight's discussions. Even though we disagree Grustler and handler000, you guys both make solid and valid points as boxing fans. This is what it's all about for followers of the sport of boxing. Green Karma is coming to both of you gentleman as a token of respect. I'm sure we will disagree much more in the future, but I don't mind as long as we keep it civil and support the sport of boxing.

Cheers.

All good fam! I like keeping the discussions civil and intellectual.
We may not ever agree but it doesn't mean that we have to be
disrespectful towards each other and that is what I enjoyed
most about our back and forth discussions tonight! Take care
and debate with you soon.

100
GRUST

[jetgeomcx]

The way Miguel Cotto performed at 140 I don't see him losing that
weight to go to a catch and being totally dominate against Manny.
Manny would capatilize on Cotto's openings. I'm telling you, Freddie
Roach would have a field day training Manny for Cotto. At 147 I
can see Cotto putting Manny down but anything lowe Manny takes
it.

you have forgotten the words of freddie: "we are brave, but not ******."
now fredie won't cherry pick on miguel if he ask miguel to go down to 143, won't he....
of course freddie knows how to create advantage/s for his fyter, just like floyd does!!
cotto may well be at 158 during fyt nyt but freddie will cook up something to counter that.

i'm telling you too, the fyt will happen at 144, ryt in the middle of 140 and 147 for the WW belt of cotto.
cotto's logic in accepting the fyt?:
1. he is bigger and stronger than manny, early camp can negate possible
weight drain.
2. this is cotto's biggest opportunity to stardom, catapults im to p4p rankings
3. a win with manny will make him the flavor of the month, and leads to a
super mega fyt with floyd.
4. arum can easily make this fyt than manny-may.