NSB: Would you rather have Floyd fight the BEST of any weightclass or Just WW?

[El Chicano]

I've never been able to force myself to read any of your opening posts.

[mellow_mood]

this is a fair post.
so you are basically saying floyd has to be at a physical disadvantage in order for you to think that he would have a chance to lose?

no....

im saying that if he wants to claim that hes the best at some division he needs to face the best of that division. if for any means that fighter is bigger than him.. well.. thats what it s gonna take....

Or.. he just needs to stop claiming that hes the best at any weight...


No. You are the best at 130-135-140.

@ 147 and above you havent beat the top fighters so you cant claim those divisions... as simple as that.

Im not saying that hes not the best athlete or dissin him.. im giving the guy the props he deserve. Nothing more, Nothing less

[The Hammer]

If there were no elite fighters in his own weightclass, that would justify it.

But he could instead fight Mosley, Williams, Cotto, etc.

Mayweather is a coward for avoiding them and forcing a little fighter to move up to face him.

[Eaner0919]

this is a fair post.
so you are basically saying floyd has to be at a physical disadvantage in order for you to think that he would have a chance to lose?

but see YOU said it yourself in the opening stanza

Floyd is not a natural welterweight

ok so if thats the case (which I do agree with) then what he is doing at welter is either one of two things

1. a true challenge to test his skills when the odds are stacked against him (in this case going up against full fledged welterweights).

2. that this is a sham to fool the public into thinking that Floyd is indeed a true champion willing to fight the best.


Point 1 is a noble concept but considering the level of opposition he has fought:

*Sharmba Mitchell- his first fight at 147 which is fine but lets not forget Ba's best was left at 140

*Zab Judah- one time unified champ who lost to a fighter he should have had no issues with and has subsequently shown that he was more Cinderella than true champion. Judah has shown since the Mayweather fight that he too seemed more bark than bite

* Baldomir- more Cinderella story than a true champion. Granted it was for the lineal title (something a lot of Floyd fans consider a true gauge) but if thats the case do we then prop up the likes of Buster Douglass?

* De La Hoya- probably Floyd's biggest challenge but not because of the skills he had (which were diminshed by the time they fought) but because he clearly outweighed Floyd and forced him to go up. Critics laid into De La Hoya about making Floyd fight above 147 when it was clear that he had no business being there. Also, take into account that while the challenge of the weight was indeed something, looking at DLH's career you can honestly say he hadn't had a signifigant win since 2002 and Vargas.

* Ricky Hatton- the 140lb champ and undefeated beating the likes of Tszyu along the way. One could say that this was Mayweather's crowning achievement at 147 however when you take into account Hatton's other fight at 147 (a lackluster "win" over perrenial fringe contender Luis Collazo) you can see that it was clear Hatton wasn't going to be the same beast who reeked havoc upon the 140lb division. The one thing he had as an advantage at 140 was clearly taken away at 147, his raw bull like strength. He was being outmuscled not by one but two small sized welters.

now normally this above would be fine for any fighter. Hell if Andre Berto had this resume above we would be singing his praises a lot more than we do currently

but remember this is Floyd who himself thinks not only is he the best in the game right now but one of the best all time.

You mentioned that there are plenty of Cottos and Clotteys in every division and this is somewhat true. However, the true greats of this sport went through those guys on their way to the big money fights

Hagler fought mega matchups with guys like Leonard Hearns and Duran but along the way he also faced tough challengers like Hamsho, Antefuermo, Roldan, Scypion and Mugabi.

and thats the thing that Floyd is now lacking. For every mega matchup (Mayweather Hatton) there isn't the tough guy in between to keep his status secure. No we get guys with great titles like Lineal Champ or One Time Undisputed Champ but little to no substance behind it.

it's a shame to me considering the immense amount of work he did at 130 and 135. Not one person here can debate Floyd's run at those two weights and if they did it would be based on pure hate.

but for such an all time great the second stanza of his career is honestly marred by disappointment more than pride

do you really want YOUR champion to go out like that? to go out knowing that if he indeed makes a JMM go up to ~147 that it lessens the challenge to the point where it actually becomes a critical point in Floyd's career rather than a challenge against one of the p4p best of our era? Heck at this point we do not even know if JMM is going to fair well at 140 let alone above it.

again tune up is fine for July. But Floyd nor his hardcore fans should try and sell it if it is indeed JMM and indeed at ~147 as anything regarding p4p status or that it's any semblance of a challenge

[Pullcounter]

I think floyd should be pretty respectful of jmm in the promotion of this fight or he makes this fight look like a farce. hopefully he learned from the gatti fight that you get no credit if you completely disparage your opponent.

[BattlingNelson]

PLEASE ADDRESS THIS POST

So to drive home this point.

Are you are saying in Floyd's case if a smaller fighter or bigger fighter calls out Floyd then, You are saying that Floyd should go to their weight class and fight them although they called out him????

Horus this thread has given a lot of NSB's best posters a chance to show off their knowledge. You deserve kudos for that and you definetely don't deserve to be so red karmawise

To adress your post let me first say that a lot of answers has been given already, but in general when a fighter calls out a fighter in another weightclass he should be willing to move up or down accordingly or at least fight at a reasonable catchweight.

I have no problems with this fight if one looks upon it as (another in a long line of) tune-up(s), but what I don't like is 2 things:

1: Floydstan's try to convince others that this fight is a meaningful legacyenhancing fight when it clearly isn't if JMM is forced above LW.
2: I think the outstanding poster Jab mentioned that Floyd said he'd come back only to enhance his legacy and fighting JMM at 140+ must be a huge dissapointment accordingly. It should be for you as well.

THIS DOES NOTHING FOR FLOYD'S LEGACY. IT ONLY SERVES TO FILL HIS POCKETS!

[Smash]

Floyd may have a lineal welter title to his name, but he only beat one fighter, baldo, to get it, who in turn beat juddah. I dont see anything special or history making in that to be honest. I like the jmm fight as jmm is a special fighter and tough even if he is fighting well above what he has done before. I think its unfortunate that floyd has not fought a "true" welter yet as he himself cannot get back to 140 for years now so he is a welter in my eyes, id like to see him pit himself against some hard hitting welters too

[THE REED]

Floyd may have a lineal welter title to his name, but he only beat one fighter, baldo, to get it, who in turn beat juddah. I dont see anything special or history making in that to be honest. I like the jmm fight as jmm is a special fighter and tough even if he is fighting well above what he has done before. I think its unfortunate that floyd has not fought a "true" welter yet as he himself cannot get back to 140 for years now so he is a welter in my eyes, id like to see him pit himself against some hard hitting welters too

And what proof says Floyd is UNABLE to make 140?

He can make 140 EASILY.... if HATTON, who walks around at 170 in between fights, can make 140... then Floyd can, as he walksa round at 150 even...

[Pullcounter]

Floyd may have a lineal welter title to his name, but he only beat one fighter, baldo, to get it, who in turn beat juddah. I dont see anything special or history making in that to be honest.

because you're a hater

I like the jmm fight as jmm is a special fighter and tough even if he is fighting well above what he has done before.

you must've forgot that floyd used to be 130 lbs and 147 is floyd's 4th weight division.

I think its unfortunate that floyd has not fought a "true" welter yet as he himself cannot get back to 140 for years now so he is a welter in my eyes, id like to see him pit himself against some hard hitting welters too

I can ***** on jmm at 135 also... casamayor was a shell of the one that beat corrales. juan diaz was ruined by campbell.

jmm has never fought a hard hitting welter.

see how easy that was?

[Spacey1991]

Horus this thread has given a lot of NSB's best posters a chance to show off their knowledge. You deserve kudos for that and you definetely don't deserve to be so red karmawise

To adress your post let me first say that a lot of answers has been given already, but in general when a fighter calls out a fighter in another weightclass he should be willing to move up or down accordingly or at least fight at a reasonable catchweight.

I have no problems with this fight if one looks upon it as (another in a long line of) tune-up(s), but what I don't like is 2 things:

1: Floydstan's try to convince others that this fight is a meaningful legacyenhancing fight when it clearly isn't if JMM is forced above LW.
2: I think the outstanding poster Jab mentioned that Floyd said he'd come back only to enhance his legacy and fighting JMM at 140+ must be a huge dissapointment accordingly. It should be for you as well.

THIS DOES NOTHING FOR FLOYD'S LEGACY. IT ONLY SERVES TO FILL HIS POCKETS!

This is what I agree with 80%, this fight with JMM is a tune-up... nothing huge, it wont enhance his legacy a lot... but only a little bit because it is another good name to have on your resume. It is like what Ree****yalus has been saying... a win over JMM at 147 or whatever is a pretty good win, but not an absolute great win.

For what you said about him saying he will come back just to seal his legacy and add to it and fighting JMM is a disappointing I disagree with, I don't mind him fighting JMM when it is classed as a tune-up to get rid of ring rust, nobody should blame him for not stepping into the ring with somebody like Cotto or Mosley straight after an 18 month layoff... if you get what I mean? If it is just to sharpen him up a bit and get rid of ring rust I don't mind... I don't like calling it a tune-up fight in respect to JMM, but it is the best way to describe it.

Either way, good post... and I gotta give credit to Horus for making this poll which was a pretty good one, because it has matched out pretty evenly.