Whens the last time Hatton beat a world class fighter in his prime?

[baracuda]

Malignaggi is a world class fighter and anyone who denies that is a ****ing idiot, the guy was world class, and he was in his prime, hatton whooped him. end thread

world class?yes...elite?no...imo ofcourse!

[cuzfozzy]

he didn't even beat tszyu .. he cheated and the ref helped him

[Lacrimosa]

undefeated since 1997, he was in and around his prime. Pound for pound top 3

Well at some point Joe Louis also was undefeated

Kostya was far from being in his prime before that fight

[Benny Leonard]

So was Kostya past his prime when he lost to Vince Phillips? I think he must've been he just didn't look too good.

Same goes with Malignaggi, he must've been past his prime cause he got his butt whooped. How about Urango? He wasn't elite yet because Hatton shut him out for 12 even though it's his only loss.

How about Bhop when he lost to Taylor, he was past his prime right? He didn't look too good. Then he beats Tarver, shuts him out. Then he loses to Calzaghe and he doesn't look too good, he's past his prime again. Then he beats young Pavlik, shuts him out for 12. So is Hopkins really past his prime, cause his best victories are against Tarver, Winky and Pavlik who were all elite and prime fighter as big and even bigger than Hopkins. All three top 10 p4p fighters at the time.

I could go on and on.

The past his prime debate is absolute bull****. Just look at Toney's wins and losses.

Yeah, actually, I said a while back that Hopkins was past is peak when he fought Taylor. Go look at fights prior to Tito and come back to me. Hopkins was still a good fighter and could match up with certain styles at that point, but he wasn't at his athletic best which hindered his fight game.

Tarver victory is overrated. Tarver was coming back down in weight for that fight and showed up "flat." Prime Hopkins could have still beaten him but just saying for that particular meeting, it gets a bit overrated.

Pavlik was a perfect style matchup both Mentally and Physically.

[Lacrimosa]

he didn't even beat tszyu .. he cheated and the ref helped him

Since when is hugging named cheating ?

They call it ,exquisitely, "style"

[winac]

i asked you if erik was past his prime at 29yrs of age, you said yes and you said tszyu was not past his prime at 36.that was all i needed.thanks!

Re-read my long post I even mentioned what I thought of Tszyu in it and you said that "I had a point" showing you agreed with it on some level. You went on to say that despite that because Morales was 29 he was in his prime. My argument was completely different to yours and I did not mention anything about age. Here is the post again for you, along with your reply. You have not proved anything

Quote:
Originally Posted by winac
In my opinion Morales wasn't in his prime and I think you can make a strong case for that being true. For example, when a fighter who has been on a long unbeaten run he is usually considered in his prime. As that fighter gets on in age and someone eventually beats him, I think that fighter can still claim they beat a prime fighter, especially if there were no signs in previous fights that the fighter's skills were diminishing. However once they have lost I think it is a lot easier to argue they are past their prime because when an older fighter loses towards the end of his career his performances tend to be a lot less impressive and they start to show signs of age. For example, when Kosta Tsyzu lost to Ricky Hatton, Tsyzu was unbeaten since 1997 and because of this you can argue that Kosta was if not in his prime certainly near his prime. However after that, if someone else had beaten him after the Hatton fight, it would be much more difficult for that fighter to claim Tszyu was in his prime.

When Pacquiao fought Morales first time round not only was Morales coming off a loss but he beat Pacquiao. Pacquiao didn't fight him straight after this fight but instead Morales fought Zahir Raheem. If Pacquiao had fought Morales in a rematch immediately I think it would be a lot easier to claim Morales was if not in his prime near his his prime since he was coming off a big win. However Morales lost convincingly to Zahir Raheem and was already coming off a loss before the first Pacman fight Pacman missed an opportunity there and instead Raheem's victory over Pacman holds a lot more weight than Pacquiao's. Pacquiao ended up fighting Morales after he had lost and it means a lot less. He should have fought Raheem and allowed Morales to fight another big name to see if he still had it. If Morales had won that fight and proved he was still near his prime then Pacquiao should have fought him and then he could have claimed Morales was closer to his prime than he is able to claim now. Morales lost 4 of his last 5 fights and after the first Pacquiao fight wasn't able to prove whether he was near his prime as he didn't win another fight.

you do have a point but it's just hard for me to believe that an elite 29 yr old is past his prime already when we see someone like jmm,mosely,b-hop still kickin ass!btw,it'ws a good read!

[cuzfozzy]

Since when is hugging named cheating ?

They call it ,exquisitely, "style"

when you do it for 2/3 of each round then it's cheating ...

[Chunk..]

There is a line a mile long to fight Floyd and Pac for the name and the pay , once your on top everybody wants to fight you , Hatton is world class no doubt but he aint elite ,, I dont think Hatton is a fraud just not as good as he is hyped to be , when they say he is this non stop beast that dont slow and is this great body puncher I dont see it , Floyd made him look second rate in every department .

Name one 'Top name' fighter who doesn't get hyped up? Fair enough, you don't rate Hatton highly, but people who discredit his resume are talking **** in all honesty, his beaten some decent fighters. The 140 division ain't stacked. His been top of tree there for a good while now.

You can nit pick anyone's resume in this sport. FACT.

[hammerhiem]

Malignaggi is a world class fighter and anyone who denies that is a ****ing idiot, the guy was world class, and he was in his prime, hatton whooped him. end thread

For some people if you are not top 50 All time P4P you're not world class.

personally if you are top 5 in your weight division and/or won and defended a "world" title, you're world class, kinda have to be really.

I think everyuone obsession with P4P ranking has muddied the water so much that it's almost impossible for any fighter to get credit fighting in his own division any more.

I mean look at hatton last 8 fights.

Tzsyu: Ring champ/IBF champ
Maussa: Ring No6/WBA champ
Collazo: Ring No4/WBA WW Champ
Urango: IBF Champ and presently ranked Ring No5
Castillio: Ring No1
PBF: Ring Champ/WBC WW Champ
Lazcano: Ring No7
Malinaggi: Ring No1/IBF Champ

Not one of them is a bum like Gomez, Jennings, Kolle, Lockett, Simon, Pascal, Lolfredo to name but a few.

and yet here we have a thread questioning hatton's resume... madness.

[baracuda]

Re-read my long post I even mentioned what I thought of Tszyu in it and you said that "I had a point" showing you agreed with it on some level. You went on to say that despite that because Morales was 29 he was in his prime. My argument was completely different to yours and I did not mention anything about age. Here is the post again for you, along with your reply. You have not proved anything

Quote:
Originally Posted by winac
In my opinion Morales wasn't in his prime and I think you can make a strong case for that being true. For example, when a fighter who has been on a long unbeaten run he is usually considered in his prime. As that fighter gets on in age and someone eventually beats him, I think that fighter can still claim they beat a prime fighter, especially if there were no signs in previous fights that the fighter's skills were diminishing. However once they have lost I think it is a lot easier to argue they are past their prime because when an older fighter loses towards the end of his career his performances tend to be a lot less impressive and they start to show signs of age. For example, when Kosta Tsyzu lost to Ricky Hatton, Tsyzu was unbeaten since 1997 and because of this you can argue that Kosta was if not in his prime certainly near his prime. However after that, if someone else had beaten him after the Hatton fight, it would be much more difficult for that fighter to claim Tszyu was in his prime.

When Pacquiao fought Morales first time round not only was Morales coming off a loss but he beat Pacquiao. Pacquiao didn't fight him straight after this fight but instead Morales fought Zahir Raheem. If Pacquiao had fought Morales in a rematch immediately I think it would be a lot easier to claim Morales was if not in his prime near his his prime since he was coming off a big win. However Morales lost convincingly to Zahir Raheem and was already coming off a loss before the first Pacman fight Pacman missed an opportunity there and instead Raheem's victory over Pacman holds a lot more weight than Pacquiao's. Pacquiao ended up fighting Morales after he had lost and it means a lot less. He should have fought Raheem and allowed Morales to fight another big name to see if he still had it. If Morales had won that fight and proved he was still near his prime then Pacquiao should have fought him and then he could have claimed Morales was closer to his prime than he is able to claim now. Morales lost 4 of his last 5 fights and after the first Pacquiao fight wasn't able to prove whether he was near his prime as he didn't win another fight.

you do have a point but it's just hard for me to believe that an elite 29 yr old is past his prime already when we see someone like jmm,mosely,b-hop still kickin ass!btw,it'ws a good read!

thanks again!