nikolai valuev is an ATG and is better than Lewis

[Southpaw Stinger]

won 50 (KO 34) + lost 1 (KO 0) + drawn 0

KO percentage= 65

WBA Ordinary World heavyweight title holder

NABA heavyweight title holder

WBA Inter-Continental Heavyweight Title holder

PABA heavyweight title holder

Russia heavyweight title holder

He's a giant, would have outboxed Lennox Lewis and k.o'd him in 6, would wipe the floor with the Klits in 3, and would beat Ali and Frazier in UD. TOP 3 HEAVYWEIGHT EVER. Legend.

Yawn............................

[TheGreatA]

A lot of fair points there, can't see any of those next generation bar Liston beating Marciano mind. Unfortunate more for Marciano not to get the opportunity to get better names on the record. Marciano beat everyone in front of him can't do more.

Agreed but there have been fighters like Muhammad Ali who dominated their era and fought the best of the next era as well.

Marciano retired at the right time but you also can't give him credit for never facing the next generation of fighters.

As for Slimey Limey:

If people would study his bum of the month club title reign he would be ranked much lower. Same reason Holmes isn't, because he was never hyped up like Louis. The top 2 is Lennox Lewis and a tie between Ali and Marciano. Louis ranks in the bottom of the top 10. Maybe top 15.

If you studied the bum of the month club you would stop calling them bums. Most of them were accomplished fighters aside from a couple.

It is very meaningfull because he is the only one to do it. Louis is the only one with 25 title defenses yet that is very very meaningful to you, isn't it Manmachine? Foreman is the only one to win the title at 45. Again, very meaningfull to the youtube machine. But Marciano? That's a diffirent story ay mate?

It is meaningful but no more meaningful than the accomplishments I listed. Rocky's "0" shouldn't define his legacy, the men that he beat to achieve that record should. The problem is that his resume of names just doesn't compare very well to the top 3 or 5 ATG heavyweights.

And I see you mentioning ATG fighters only by their age. Very convenient there copright infringing machine. Maybe you forgot how well they fought against Marciano and showed they still were great. What you did was you nitpicked his record, which can be done to a lot of fighters. How about you do the same to louis? Probably cause it would be true.

They fought well against him but if it was Louis you'd call him out for struggling with old men.

I've defended Marciano for fighting the men that he did, old as they were. He had no one else to fight at the time but you cannot give him a huge amount of credit for beating aging light heavyweights and for the most part having a lot of trouble against them.

Further. Now you're crying about SIZE? Oh wait a second mate, aren't you the one that supports the old timers the most? Marciano fought bigger fighters than himself. It is irrelevant what size they were in 1894 or will be in 2078. He fought in his time and you judge him accordingly, in his time. I just love how size is never an issue for you, but Marciano? That is a diffirent story ay mate?

Every heavyweight in history aside from Marciano fought world class heavyweights who would be considered heavyweights even in modern times with 190-200 lb weight limit.

You just have to wonder how he would have done against a bigger, stronger talented heavyweight with his come forward style.

This is not the reason why I drop Marciano from consideration as a top 3 ATG heavyweight, it's just one of them.

Being a great champion is about proving yourself against all comers. Marciano could have fought big, top ranked heavyweights like Bob Baker and Nino Valdes but he never got in the ring with them. Now if you asked me I'd favour Marciano to beat them but he didn't and thus it shouldn't count on his resume.

There you go. I exposed you as the Marciano hating fraud that you are. You can't hide this from me mate.

The only thing you are exposing is your illogical hatred for Joe Louis.

P.S. I also love how in your second post you are crying about Marciano's close fights yet you would NEVER ever admit Louis had gift decisions or close fights. This is what defines you.

Sure he did. I've acknowledged this in past arguments unless you have forgotten. The problem is that you have not acknowledged that this happened to Marciano too, not just Louis and against worse fighters than Walcott.

According to you Louis was dominated by a smaller light heavyweight (Billy Conn) but it's better to win by a decisive KO against an ATG hall of fame LHW than win controversially against a light heavyweight journeyman like Ted Lowry.

[The_Demon]

i take it this isnt a serious thread

[Spray_resistant]

Valuev better watch out because this little guy is about to surpass his legacy.....

[Mir-44]

This is dumb.. A 46 year old AMERICAN hero outboxed him that lazy fool.

[GJC]

Manchine,
Wish someone could talk me through the cut quote thing!
"Marciano could have fought big, top ranked heavyweights like Bob Baker and Nino Valdes but he never got in the ring with them"
To be fair you arn't saying say Marciano ducked them are you?
Moore had already beaten both of them them in the calender year and Marciano gave Moore a shot. He wasn't he most active heavyweight champion but kept busier than a lot. Can't really see he ducked a legitimate contender or retired to avoid one. I don't think that D'Mato would have rushed Patterson to challenge Marciano.
Basically IMO Rocky started fighting professionally quite late, retired at a sensible age fought all in front of him in a poor era.

[TheGreatA]

Manchine,
Wish someone could talk me through the cut quote thing!
"Marciano could have fought big, top ranked heavyweights like Bob Baker and Nino Valdes but he never got in the ring with them"
To be fair you arn't saying say Marciano ducked them are you?
Moore had already beaten both of them them in the calender year and Marciano gave Moore a shot. He wasn't he most active heavyweight champion but kept busier than a lot. Can't really see he ducked a legitimate contender or retired to avoid one. I don't think that D'Mato would have rushed Patterson to challenge Marciano.
Basically IMO Rocky started fighting professionally quite late, retired at a sensible age fought all in front of him in a poor era.

I'm not saying that he ducked them because he didn't. Baker and Valdes were never in a great position to fight Marciano because whenever they were about to get a shot, they blew their chance by losing. Both were solid top 5 heavyweights though, Valdes was rated the number 1 challenger for a couple of years even.

Marciano fought the best available opposition as champion but fighting solid heavyweights like Satterfield, Valdes, Baker, Henry, Johnson, etc. would have added to his legacy. When you compare the amount of top 10 heavyweights that Ali and Louis fought to Marciano there's quite a difference. To be fair to Rocky a lot of fighters' resumes would look poor next to Ali and Louis.

It's just tough to rate Marciano at the top because he lacks big wins, did not fight a lot of top ranked opposition and his dominance did not last very long.

[Abstraction]

a "0" Means nothing in this sport if you're always the favourite especially.

If it's for money, fair enough. But these guys beat nobody, so they can't claim anything else.