nikolai valuev is an ATG and is better than Lewis

[Slimey Limey]

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...17#post5085917

Joe Louis beat more top 10 ranked contenders and hall of famers than any other heavyweight champion.

Except those top 10 opponents were bum of the month club FAILS, and he got gifts or lost to ATG's like Walcott, Schmeling, Charles and Marciano.

With Rocky you always discredit his unbeaten record. Yet you FAIL to see that nobody else retired unbeaten at the top. You show yet again you're one of the worst posters ever.

[TheGreatA]

Except those top 10 opponents were bum of the month club FAILS, and he got gifts or lost to ATG's like Walcott, Schmeling, Charles and Marciano.

The fact is that Louis stepped in the ring against more higher rated contenders than Marciano did. His percentage of top 10 ranked contenders fought is up there with Muhammad Ali and Evander Holyfield while Marciano's would rank among the lowest of all heavyweight champions.

With Rocky you always discredit his unbeaten record. Yet you FAIL to see that nobody else retired unbeaten at the top. You show yet again you're one of the worst posters ever.

There were many other fighters who have retired unbeaten. You show yet again you're one of the least knowledgeable posters ever.

[MANGLER]

Sarcasm is a *****.

[Slimey Limey]

The fact is that Louis stepped in the ring against more higher rated contenders than Marciano did. His percentage of top 10 ranked contenders fought is up there with Muhammad Ali and Evander Holyfield while Marciano's would rank among the lowest of all heavyweight champions.

Again some laughable bollocks logics you made up. Ok then, so what defines Louis is how high his opponents were ranked and not the QUALITY OF FIGHTERS they were?
Lets face it then, Haseem Rahman and Ruiz are hall of famers. The Klitschko's are fastly becoming top 10 ATG heavyweights. Tyson would be top 3 HW by your logic. It's all about the rankings and "Hall of fame" right mate?

You are laughable and pathetic in your attempts to cover up Louis' extremely pathetic and laughable legacy.

There were many other fighters who have retired unbeaten. You show yet again you're one of the least knowledgeable posters ever

Not one non-Heavyweight has been mentioned in this thread, so I think it was obvious I was speaking about Heavyweights. What's the matter mate, can't find a youtube clip to save you from this?

[TheGreatA]

Again some laughable bollocks logics you made up. Ok then, so what defines Louis is how high his opponents were ranked and not the QUALITY OF FIGHTERS they were?
Lets face it then, Haseem Rahman and Ruiz are hall of famers. The Klitschko's are fastly becoming top 10 ATG heavyweights. Tyson would be top 3 HW by your logic. It's all about the rankings and "Hall of fame" right mate?

You are laughable and pathetic in your attempts to cover up Louis' extremely pathetic and laughable legacy.

Being top 10 ranked and a hall of famer means you were a quality fighter of your era.

Tyson and the Klitschko brothers have fought against good opposition but nowhere near as consistently as Joe Louis did.

Rahman and Ruiz are hall of famers? Sure.

Not one non-Heavyweight has been mentioned in this thread, so I think it was obvious I was speaking about Heavyweights. What's the matter mate, can't find a youtube clip to save you from this?

You're trying to save your skin now after realizing you were wrong. Nothing indicates that you were only talking about heavyweights:

"With Rocky you always discredit his unbeaten record. Yet you FAIL to see that nobody else retired unbeaten at the top. You show yet again you're one of the worst posters ever."

Here's a "great" undefeated heavyweight you probably haven't heard of:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...5680&cat=boxer

Not to mention Ike Ibeabuchi whom some believe would have beaten any boxer who ever lived because he was never beaten. Flawless logic.

[Slimey Limey]

Being top 10 ranked and a hall of famer means you were a quality fighter of your era.

Tyson and the Klitschko brothers have fought against good opposition but nowhere near as consistently as Joe Louis did.

Rahman and Ruiz are hall of famers? Sure. .

According to you they are. See, you are trying to hype up Louis' pathetic resume by mentioning his opponents being top 10 at the time, or in the hall of fame(which contains many fighters who aren't worthy of ATG status) while completely disgarding the fact that they were mostly ****, i.e. bum of the month club carcasses. So I was pointing out that there have been many fighters who consistently beat top 10 opponents yet those opponents were all ****. But of cource since it's Joe Louis, it's all "great" ay mate?

You're trying to save your skin now after realizing you were wrong. Nothing indicates that you were only talking about heavyweights:

"With Rocky you always discredit his unbeaten record. Yet you FAIL to see that nobody else retired unbeaten at the top. You show yet again you're one of the worst posters ever."

Here's a "great" undefeated heavyweight you probably haven't heard of:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...5680&cat=boxer

Not to mention Ike Ibeabuchi whom some believe would have beaten any boxer who ever lived because he was never beaten. Flawless logic

I'm trying to save my skin? I have quite healthy skin thank you mate.

And now you are posting an ACTIVE fighter's unbeaten record? I'm thinking you have problems reading there mate, because I clearly said unbeaten retired fighters(meaning heavyweights).

Ibeabuchi's career was cut short, so he wasn't planning on retiring yet. Career cut short, retiring at the top= Not the same.

You are really grasping at straws now Robot. I have you shook, i'm seeing you get irritated and out of character with smileys etc. I love it, mate.

Oh and P.S.
The only person that believes Ike was unbeatable and all of that, is your little prodigy Southpaw16. Your clone disagrees with you, mate.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Except those top 10 opponents were bum of the month club FAILS, and he got gifts or lost to ATG's like Walcott, Schmeling, Charles and Marciano.

With Rocky you always discredit his unbeaten record. Yet you FAIL to see that nobody else retired unbeaten at the top. You show yet again you're one of the worst posters ever.

Would you rather have the career of Marciano or the career of Louis?

[TheGreatA]

According to you they are. See, you are trying to hype up Louis' pathetic resume by mentioning his opponents being top 10 at the time, or in the hall of fame(which contains many fighters who aren't worthy of ATG status) while completely disgarding the fact that they were mostly ****, i.e. bum of the month club carcasses. So I was pointing out that there have been many fighters who consistently beat top 10 opponents yet those opponents were all ****. But of cource since it's Joe Louis, it's all "great" ay mate?

That they were "bums" is an opinion which you are entitled to.

That many of them were top 10 ranked at the time and some later inducted into the hall of fame is a fact.

And now you are posting an ACTIVE fighter's unbeaten record? I'm thinking you have problems reading there mate, because I clearly said unbeaten retired fighters(meaning heavyweights).

The way he is going on about his career he will likely retire undefeated as well.

Ibeabuchi's career was cut short, so he wasn't planning on retiring yet. Career cut short, retiring at the top= Not the same.

Retired unbeaten heavyweights from recent times:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...4589&cat=boxer
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...1914&cat=boxer

Undefeated HW champion from the bareknuckle era:

http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/pioneer/pearce.html

Oh and P.S.
The only person that believes Ike was unbeatable and all of that, is your little prodigy Southpaw16. Your clone disagrees with you, mate.

A lot of the time I do not agree with what Southpaw16 says but he nor I feel the need to insult each other over it as you do.

[-----------]

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...4589&cat=boxer
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...1914&cat=boxer

Do you think these guys retired "at the top"?

lmao

[TheGreatA]

Do you think these guys retired "at the top"?

lmao

My intention was to show that there have been more than a couple of fighters who retired unbeaten throughout the history of boxing.

If asked whether there were any heavyweights champions who retired at the top then the options become more limited of course.

In the past 100 years there has only been one, Rocky Marciano, but does the fact that he was undefeated make him the greatest of them all? He fought in an era during which the competition was limited and retired just at the right time before Liston, Patterson, Johansson, Machen, Folley, Williams came into the heavyweight picture.

I give him credit for never having an "off night" (as Louis, Lewis, Holmes, Tyson did) and for not fighting past his prime (as Jeffries, Sullivan, Ali and many others did) but as far as his longevity, championship reign and resume are concerned, he shouldn't rate right at the top. He is a top 10 heavyweight in my opinion but not the greatest, just one of the greatest.