Don't count out Chavez Jr. just yet..

[ИATAS]

I can see your point on this Nastas.

But the fact that we (including me) are NOT willing to pay to watch him all the time probably says more about us than it does about him.

You said it yourself, the point of "exposing" himself on ESPN, SHOWTIME, & HBO for free is to increase his fan base right?

Why increase your fan base? Cause more popularity means more money, correct?
If his team keeps doing these pay per views, it's because he's ALREADY making big $$$$.

I'm with you on your complaint, cause I'd like to see him more, but the fact that he's already established enough fans to draw PPV numbers should tell us he doesn't need me or you to love him.

Or should he do free shows out of the goodness of his heart?

He wouldn't be doing it for FREE he would be getting paid, just not quite as much. Look at his PPV numbers, they are all very small, 10k, 20k tops. The investment to put in work now on free TV, or at least HBO/Showtime is that he could build his name and fan base and do PPV's 250,000, 500,000, etc. in the future. At this rate he's always going to be doing very low PPV numbers. That's bad business. Look at all the top money makers, all time - oscar de la hoya, mike tyson, evander holyfield. You know what they have in common? They all started out on free TV.

[rottenapple]

2-3 years ago... it was cool chearing him.... but ****.. man its crazy.. its about time he steps his **** up... and i agree he is young....

[pistol whip]

There is definitely some talent and names at 154 and I don't see jr. calling out any of these names:

Vernon Forrest
Paul Williams
Verno Phillips
Cory Spinks
Sergio Martinez
Sergio Mora
Sergei Dzindziruk
Daniel Santos
James Kirkland
Joachim Alcine
Alfredo Angulo
Kermit Cintron
Yuri Foreman

****, even guys like K9 Bundrage, Grady Brewer, Ishe Smith would be a big step up. And all of these guys are bigger names and more well known then the bums jr has been fighting, that's for sure.

And half that list isn't any better than the guy Chavez JR fought this past saturday. Corey Spinks on that list justifies how poor the division was to begin with so calm down it's not like the majority of the people on your list haven't padded their records with the same level of talent Junior has.

[Da Hammer]

yea i agree with OP. i made a post about this the other day questioning all the hate that Chavez Jr. was getting. Sure he's only an average fighter and has fought basically nobody. but he had no amateur career so i like the pace at which he has been brought up on. now they should start bumpin up his competition a little bit more not any top star but some decent known fighters. Chavez just needs to grow his confidence and rely more on his natural talents. He needs to learn how to use his big frame! I dont think he willl ever be a great fighter but still he has a chance to be quite solid and make Papa Chavez proud!

[Bobby Shaw]

I keep hearing that Chavez Jr. is a bum and will never even be a good fighter over and over in this place. There's a few things that I don't understand about that argument.

First off, he's young, very young. Some even say younger than the 21 years old he claims to be. Some close to him have admitted he can't be that old and is more like 19 yrs old but needed to start making money so the birth certificate was falsified.

Second, he never had an amateur career. He has about 40 fights so far and is undefeated. Granted it's with lesser opposition but this is sort of his "amateur career" he's going through right now.

There's a few things I see in him that are very good. He has very good fundamentals, you can tell he was taught very well by his father and fights a lot like him. He seems to have a good chin like his father and throws a great left hook to the body. He's tall and long for his weight, something his father never had.

There's a few bad things. He looks inexperienced at times and his defense needs major work. Even though he's tall and long he doesn't use them to his advantage and likes to brawl with his opponents and takes that advantage away from himself at times.

I would never say he is going to be as great as his father but I think people are jumping the gun when it comes to him being a "bum". I think with more fights under his belt and his body growing, he could be a GOOD fighter, maybe even contend for a belt.

What do you guys think?

I think he's a bum.He has to prove otherwise

[ИATAS]

And half that list isn't any better than the guy Chavez JR fought this past saturday.

Unlikely, but even if true they all have a bigger name.

Corey Spinks on that list justifies how poor the division was to begin with so calm down it's not like the majority of the people on your list haven't padded their records with the same level of talent Junior has.

I'd pick each and every one of those guys listed beating Chavez jr at this point.

[Motofan]

He's a bum until he fights and beats someone with a pulse. And he actually has to win the fight. Not just get the "nod." Nobody would ***** about him if he wasnt having his "learning" fights on PPV and getting so many of you wack jobs buying them just because you want to support a Chavez. If he needs to fight 60 cab drivers before he is ready for anyone in the top 1000 then let him do it quietly. Stop hyping someone who wont step up for another 20 fights, and stop building him up when he does nothing to warrent it. Once he steps up and doesnt get blown out of the water, then we can talk. Otherwise you know he is ONLY doing this to build a record that looks great, but is against nothing (I wonder who else has done that...hmmm.) Let me ask you Jr fans this, what is he learning from fighting the same type of ****ty fighter over and over again?

[pistol whip]

I'd pick each and every one of those guys listed beating Chavez jr at this point.

Even though most of them up to this point has faced almost the exact same level of compatition except give or take 1 or 2 actual challanges?

Sergio mora for example! Other than Vernon Forrest who else has he actually beat that was worth a ***??? Peter Manfredo?

[pistol whip]

He's a bum until he fights and beats someone with a pulse. And he actually has to win the fight. Not just get the "nod." Nobody would ***** about him if he wasnt having his "learning" fights on PPV and getting so many of you wack jobs buying them just because you want to support a Chavez. If he needs to fight 60 cab drivers before he is ready for anyone in the top 1000 then let him do it quietly. Stop hyping someone who wont step up for another 20 fights, and stop building him up when he does nothing to warrent it. Once he steps up and doesnt get blown out of the water, then we can talk. Otherwise you know he is ONLY doing this to build a record that looks great, but is against nothing (I wonder who else has done that...hmmm.) Let me ask you Jr fans this, what is he learning from fighting the same type of ****ty fighter over and over again?

Everything you just said can described almost every major contender in the junior middle weight division.


it's not like any of these contenders are fighting world beaters for christ sake and you seem more upset about his fights being on PPV.

[ИATAS]

Even though most of them up to this point has faced almost the exact same level of compatition except give or take 1 or 2 actual challanges?

Yes because 1 or 2 actual challenges is 1 or 2 challenges more than Chavez has faced. Not only comparing resume, comparing what I see int he ring. Chavez doesn't have good defense and doesn't really have any great strengths. He's an ok fighter with a legendary name. That's it!!

Sergio mora for example! Other than Vernon Forrest who else has he actually beat that was worth a ***??? Peter Manfredo?

I'm no fan of Sergio Mora by any means but he isn't that bad, he has decent skills. That's actually a pretty good fight though, Mora vs Chavez. Would definitely be the biggest test of Chavez' career.

Peter Manfredo KO's Chavez round 1.