Who has a better Legacy??? Hopkins or Jones

[THE REED]

I can see where you're coming from, and I appreciate you input. But I just want to address the bolded part real quick.

You don't think that had anything to do with Jermain's fight plan?

I mean, Taylor was desperate for respect in the first fight. People thought Wright beat him, people were pissed that he was fighting smaller men (Ouma, Spinks), people were even more pissed at his performances against said smaller men (The Spinks fight being the most boring fight ever recorded, Ouma going the distance with him), etc....

Jermain came in wanting to knock Kelly out. And he almost did.....almost. But he fought Kelly's fight, and punched himself out. And when the time came for him to turn it around, he didn't have the energy to.

Then look at the second fight, where Jermain keeps to his boxing gameplan. A lot of people felt Jermain won that fight.

See in the second fight... I blame Jermains EXTRA effort, AND the weight increase.... kelly just looked more sluggish the heavier he got...

[ßringer]

Bernard didnt knock out Antuwon Echols, Syd vanderpool, or carl god damn daniels..

and all the sudden hes knocking out Kelly Pavlik?

Hopkins got the TKO against both Echols and Daniels.

And he would get it again against a fighter as hittable as Kelly was that night.

No question in my mind.

He wouldn't knock him out cold (as in not making it to his feet before the 10 count), but he'd get the TKO, the referee would stop it.

[S.G.]

Nah, not the 2001-2004 version. Maybe the 97-99 version.

Just sayin...

the 2008 version was about 1 decent flurry of punches away from stopping him

[THE REED]

Hopkins got the TKO against both Echols and Daniels.

And he would get it again against a fighter as hittable as Kelly was that night.

No question in my mind.

He wouldn't knock him out cold (as in not making it to his feet before the 10 count), but he'd get the TKO, the referee would stop it.

I was talking about the first echols fight.. but he did KO daniels... that was my fault...


All im saying is it doesnt mean hed KO kelly... it also doest mean he couldnt... but there were lesser fighters than kelly, that Bernard didnt knock out

[IMDAZED]

the 2008 version was about 1 decent flurry of punches away from stopping him

Yeah true - forgot about that - and I was right there for that fight. But, quite honestly, that's just Hopkins. He was just a few moments from stopping Vanderpool too--and most of the fighters who went the distance with him.

I'm not sure if the 35+ version stops Pavlik but the 30-33yr old Hops definitely does in brutal fashion.

[ßringer]

See in the second fight... I blame Jermains EXTRA effort, AND the weight increase.... kelly just looked more sluggish the heavier he got...

So Jermain tried too hard in the rematch?

That doesn't make sense to me at all.

The weight thing, I can see, even though I disagree with it. But Jermain is the one who wanted it at 166lbs, Kelly was comfortable fighting him again at 160. But the Taylor camp insisted on 166, so I can't see that being the reason he lost that fight.

But really? He tried too hard?

How the hell do you try too hard in a fight?

[THE REED]

And were basing this off of Kellys fight at 170 lbs.... thats all im saying

[THE REED]

So Jermain tried too hard in the rematch?

That doesn't make sense to me at all.

The weight thing, I can see, even though I disagree with it. But Jermain is the one who wanted it at 166lbs, Kelly was comfortable fighting him again at 160. But the Taylor camp insisted on 166, so I can't see that being the reason he lost that fight.

But really? He tried too hard?

How the hell do you try too hard in a fight?

I think you read it wrong.. or maybe i typed it wrong....

The rematch was closer.. because Jermain stepped up his game more, AND the weight increase looked to damper kelly more than it did jermain... this is what i meant

[ßringer]

I was talking about the first echols fight.. but he did KO daniels... that was my fault...


All im saying is it doesnt mean hed KO kelly... it also doest mean he couldnt... but there were lesser fighters than kelly, that Bernard didnt knock out

Absolutely. But I still think he would've forced a stoppage against Kelly at 160.

****, I'd take the 2006 version of Hopkins to stop Pavlik at 160.

Or pretty much any version of Hopkins from '97-'06.

[ИATAS]

Nah, not the 2001-2004 version. Maybe the 97-99 version.

Just sayin...

2001 was when he beat Trinidad, so yeah I see him knocking kelly out. After kelly is broken down, physically & mentally, bhop finishes him off. ****, he nearly did at age 43 but he just doesn't have the same power these days as he did then.

Pavlik has been down several times in his career. To his credit obviously he always gets back up, but he's been badly hurt.