Kessler vs. Palle Continues, Sturm vs. Sato Booming

[BattlingNelson]

Sturm = poor mans Abrahams

Sturm is a highly skilled fighter. AA is highly overrated on NSB IMO. Don't get me wrong. He's good, but not THAT good.

[Dave Rado]

Nicely put. I feel the same. Only problem I see is that Calzaghe talked him up so much for there fight that people are disappointed based on how Calzaghe hyped him out to be. They expect more.....

Don't get me wrong I like Kessler and I want him to win most EVERY fight he's in. I just think Calzaghe hyped him beyond what he really is at this point. Calzaghe is good that............................

Anyway lets hope for better fights in his future. The man still has time. He should just walk away and head on over to the US! If he did that right now, by the end of the year he would be as popular as Pavlik. Just my thought........

I really want a Kessler VS Abraham fight with the winner taking on the winner of a Pavlik VS Froch..... Wishful thinking on my part, I know!

I don't think anything Calzaghe said had much to do with it. Before fighting Calzaghe, Kessler did virtually clean out an admittedly very weak division - see here. In divisional terms, his record until that point could hardly have been better.

He also looked very good in those fights, showing a great deal of skill and power. For instance, Mundine and Andrade are still highly rated in The Ring's current divisional rankings (at #3 and #4), and he beat both with great ease.

Since then he has done nothing, which is very disappointing. It's partly because of his contractual problems with his appalling promoter, but I do think it's also partly his fault for not calling out any of the leading contenders in his division (apart from Taylor, who he knew didn't feel ready to fight him yet, so that was pointless). He just calls out names in other divisions, who have no reason to fight him, and ignores his own division, which is brimming with potential good fights.

I would like him to become the clear and dominant champion of his own division first, and I'd like Abraham to do the same in his division. A fight between them would then become far more meaningful than it would be now.

I guess I wouldn't complain if he fought Abraham now, it would be a good fight; but I think there's too much of fighters who are not clear champions in their own divisions ignoring the contenders in their division and calling out names at other weights. I think that's bad for boxing - we need clear champions in each division if boxing is to ever be a mainstream sport again; and we need the lineal champions in each division to fight leading contenders on a regular basis.

[S A M U R A I]

Having said that, the people he called out were:

Hopkins, but he's not a Super Middleweight, and Kessler isn't a big enough name yet for Hopkins to have any reason to fight him, especially as Kessler wanted it to be at catchweight.

Calzaghe, but if he hadn't retired, everyone wanted Calzaghe to fight Dawson, not to rematch Kessler, so calling him out was pointless.

Dawson, but he wanted to fight Dawson at catchweight, not at Light Heavyweight, and why would Dawson agree to those terms?

Winky Wright - a Middleweight, and a much bigger name than Kessler - why would Wright move up in weight to fight someone who is not yet a big name or a dominant champion?

Taylor - the only Super Middleweight that he called out. But Taylor isn't a belt holder yet, doesn't feel ready for Kessler yet, and was already a mandatory for Froch's belt.

Pavlik - another Middleweight - and one who has already shown that he can't cut it at higher weights. Why would he move up above his peak weight to fight someone who isn't yet a big name?

But he didn't call out any of the current belt holders in his own division, such as Bute, or Froch; and with the exception of Taylor, he didn't call out any of the leading contenders, such as Greene or Bika.

So I think it was a bull**** calling out exercise, calling out completely the wrong people.

I do appreciate he's got contractual problems that are holding him back, but I'm still really unimpressed by the people he chose to call out.

I wouldn't even say "called out", because to me putting an offer forward or trying to arrange a fight is not exactly "calling out". That's kind of irrelevant I guess, but anyway.

Well, despite those guys he "called out" not being opponents that you think he should be fighting, they are NAMES. I think that's the point -- Kessler is trying to put himself back on the map by fighting someone recognizable and proven. Froch and Bute are neither American nor are they well-known. All of the opponents he "called out" are. They have also fought at or above 168, and if Dawson is willing to come down to Super Middleweight to fight Paul Williams (he has suggested this as a possibilty), then why not Kessler? I would love to see Dawson-Kessler at SMW over Dawson-Williams, but that's just me.

I agree on the Calzaghe rematch, it was a pointless effort, but I can't knock him for trying to avenge a loss. A Hopkins fight would be unlikely to happen, although personally, I would love to see them fight! As for Pavlik, again, he's a name who's last two fights at the time were fought 2 pounds either side of 168. I appreciate the fact that Kessler isn't a big name himself, but, on the other hand, Pavlik is currently fighting the likes of Rubio and apparently will be fighting Mora! Are they big names? Not really.

So, Dave, I understand what you're saying, and I feel the same way as you to a certain extent, but I do not think it was a "bull**** calling out exercize". We know Kessler is not afraid to call out fighters in his current division. He proved this by calling out the best SMW by far in Calzaghe, then fighting him in his own back yard.

People keep whining that needs to fight someone who is US-based, well-known and proven, but then you come along and say he needs to fight someone who ultimately wouldn't do that much for him if he fought them.

* Froch, at the time Kessler was in the US trying to set up a fight, hadn't fought Pascal and won the WBC belt. He was unproven and had nothing to offer Kessler.

* Bute, who many people feel was beaten by Andrade (who Kessler beat), is not a particulary big name, and for some reason I get the feeling Bute might not be prepared to step outside of Canada. If I was Kessler, or anyone, in fact, I would feel slightly nervous going to Canada to fight Bute due to what happened in the Andrade fight. Regardless, how many people would give Kessler major props for beating him? They would still sy he has to come to the US and fight someone with a bigger name.

* Bika, although I think he's a pretty dangerous fighter who gives people a bad night due to how rough he fights, possibly offered Kessler nothing. We have to consider at which point Kessler went to the US and "called out" the names on his list. It is very possible he did it before Bika won the IBO strap he currently holds, therefore it is very possible he offered Kessler basically nothing.

Did Calzaghe get props for beating Bika, or was he criticized for fighting a Contender? You know the answer to this one! At the time they fought, people were saying "WTF, Calzaghe is fighting a Contender! LMAO! PWN! He needs to get his ass over to the US and fight a name!"...



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[Dave Rado]

I wouldn't even say "called out", because to me putting an offer forward or trying to arrange a fight is not exactly "calling out". That's kind of irrelevant I guess, but anyway.

Well, despite those guys he "called out" not being opponents that you think he should be fighting, they are NAMES. I think that's the point -- Kessler is trying to put himself back on the map by fighting someone recognizable and proven. Froch and Bute are neither American nor are they well-known. All of the opponents he "called out" are. They have also fought at or above 168, and if Dawson is willing to come down to Super Middleweight to fight Paul Williams (he has suggested this as a possibilty), then why not Kessler? I would love to see Dawson-Kessler at SMW over Dawson-Williams, but that's just me.

I agree on the Calzaghe rematch, it was a pointless effort, but I can't knock him for trying to avenge a loss. A Hopkins fight would be unlikely to happen, although personally, I would love to see them fight! As for Pavlik, again, he's a name who's last two fights at the time were fought 2 pounds either side of 168. I appreciate the fact that Kessler isn't a big name himself, but, on the other hand, Pavlik is currently fighting the likes of Rubio and apparently will be fighting Mora! Are they big names? Not really.

So, Dave, I understand what you're saying, and I feel the same way as you to a certain extent, but I do not think it was a "bull**** calling out exercize". We know Kessler is not afraid to call out fighters in his current division. He proved this by calling out the best SMW by far in Calzaghe, then fighting him in his own back yard.

People keep whining that needs to fight someone who is US-based, well-known and proven, but then you come along and say he needs to fight someone who ultimately wouldn't do that much for him if he fought them.

* Froch, at the time Kessler was in the US trying to set up a fight, hadn't fought Pascal and won the WBC belt. He was unproven and had nothing to offer Kessler.

* Bute, who many people feel was beaten by Andrade (who Kessler beat), is not a particulary big name, and for some reason I get the feeling Bute might not be prepared to step outside of Canada. If I was Kessler, or anyone, in fact, I would feel slightly nervous going to Canada to fight Bute due to what happened in the Andrade fight. Regardless, how many people would give Kessler major props for beating him? They would still sy he has to come to the US and fight someone with a bigger name.

* Bika, although I think he's a pretty dangerous fighter who gives people a bad night due to how rough he fights, possibly offered Kessler nothing. We have to consider at which point Kessler went to the US and "called out" the names on his list. It is very possible he did it before Bika won the IBO strap he currently holds, therefore it is very possible he offered Kessler basically nothing.

Did Calzaghe get props for beating Bika, or was he criticized for fighting a Contender? You know the answer to this one! At the time they fought, people were saying "WTF, Calzaghe is fighting a Contender! LMAO! PWN! He needs to get his ass over to the US and fight a name!"...

Fair points, but until he can get a big name to fight him, he should be making himself into a dominant divisional champion, IMO - and he shows no signs of trying to do that. His last two opponents have been way below the level of Greene, Bika, Bute or Froch. And I think boxing needs dominant divisional champions, and it needs them to defend reasonably regularly against top 10 ranked contenders (as ranked by The Ring or boxrec, not by the alphabets). It's commendable if he also fights a big name from another division, but in the meantime, I believe that what the division needs is for him to fight meaningful fights in his own division.

I agree that Dawson expressing an interest in Williams was a little odd, after saying no to fighting Kessler at catchweight, but still, if you want to challenge a champion who is at a higher weight class than you are, and especially if you're not yet a big name yourself, you should be willing to fight them at their own weight, IMO. Hopkins didn't ask Tarver to fight at catchweight.

Regarding Bute, Canada is close enough to the US to get prime time US TV exposure; and if the ref and the judges were to be international rather than Canadian, and if Kessler had a veto over them, then the "hometown robbery" factor could be overcome. Bute might try to say no to that, I suppose, but then it would be Bute who would look bad rather than Kessler, if the negotiations for a fight were to break down for that reason. In the Calzaghe-Lacy fight, for instance, although it was held in Wales, the referee was Raul Caiz (US), and the judges were Adelaide Byrd (US), Nelson Vasquez (Puerto Rico) and Roy Francis (UK), so there could be no valid concerns about hometown bias. And Kessler hasn't even called Bute out - and nor has he recently been calling for a fight with the Froch-Taylor winner.

As an analogy: before fighting Pacquiao, Hatton beat The Ring's #1 ranked contender in his own division at that time (Malignaggi); and before fighting Mayweather, he beat the The Ring's #1 ranked contender at that time (Castillo). By contrast, Kessler's lost his last meaningful fight. I believe he needs to fight a top contender or two, and then try to get a fight with a name from another division. Until he does, his marque value will fall further and further, and the names will have less and less reason to fight him.

[S A M U R A I]

Fair points, but until he can get a big name to fight him, he should be making himself into a dominant divisional champion, IMO - and he shows no signs of trying to do that. His last two opponents have been way below the level of Greene, Bika, Bute or Froch. And I think boxing needs dominant divisional champions, and it needs them to defend reasonably regularly against top 10 ranked contenders (as ranked by The Ring or boxrec, not by the alphabets). It's commendable if he also fights a big name from another division, but in the meantime, I believe that what the division needs is for him to fight meaningful fights in his own division.

I agree that Dawson expressing an interest in Williams was a little odd, after saying no to fighting Kessler at catchweight, but still, if you want to challenge a champion who is at a higher weight than you are, and especially if you're not yet a big name yourself, you should be willing to fight them at their own weight, IMO.

Regarding Bute, Canada is close enough to the US to get prime time US TV exposure; and if the ref and the judges were to be international rather than Canadian, and if Kessler had a veto over them, then the "hometown robbery" factor could be overcome. Bute might try to say no to that, I suppose, but then it would be Bute who would look bad rather than Kessler, if the negotiations for a fight were to break down for that reason. In the Calzaghe-Lacy fight, for instance, although it was held in Wales, the referee was Raul Caiz (US), and the judges were Adelaide Byrd (US), Nelson Vasquez (Puerto Rico) and Roy Francis (UK), so there could be no valid concerns about hometown bias. And Kessler hasn't even called Bute out.

Yeah, I can't disagree with you regarding challenging those in your division and hopefully cleaning it out. Of course, it's a good thing.

No doubt Sartison and Haussler were poor opponents. Wasn't Haussler a mandatory or something? I admit to knowing nothing about the guy. Sartison was for the WBA belt, so that's not so bad. It's always nice to win a belt.



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[Dave Rado]

Yeah, I can't disagree with you regarding challenging those in your division and hopefully cleaning it out. Of course, it's a good thing.

No doubt Sartison and Haussler were poor opponents. Wasn't Haussler a mandatory or something? I admit to knowing nothing about the guy. Sartison was for the WBA belt, so that's not so bad. It's always nice to win a belt.

Yes, you're right about those two, so one can justify both those fights, I guess; although when he turned down Miranda and fought Haussler instead that was still a terrible move, IMO, although it's possible that his promoter screwed up the Miranda fight rather than him.

I think he needs a much more meaningful fight now, though, against a top contender. Haussler is only ranked #39 by boxrec and Sartison is ranked #25.

He would then also be in a much stronger position to get a fight with a big name from another division.

[S A M U R A I]

Yes, you're right about those two, so one can justify both those fights, I guess; although when he turned down Miranda and fought Haussler instead that was still a terrible move, IMO, although it's possible that his promoter screwed up the Miranda fight rather than him.

I think he needs a much more meaningful fight now, though, against a top contender. Haussler is only ranked #39 by boxrec and Sartison is ranked #25.

He would then also be in a much stronger position to get a fight with a big name from another division.

I think he should have snatched the Miranda fight when he had a chance, although I'm not clear on this. Maybe it was Bat who said he did come back and offer to fight Miranda but it was too late and Miranda decided to fight Abraham instead?

Yeah, possibly bad business move, but at the time Miranda was another guy who offered nothing, no belts. The impression I got was Kessler thought he could do better if he looked around for another opponent.



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[BattlingNelson]

I wouldn't even say "called out", because to me putting an offer forward or trying to arrange a fight is not exactly "calling out". That's kind of irrelevant I guess, but anyway.

Well, despite those guys he "called out" not being opponents that you think he should be fighting, they are NAMES. I think that's the point -- Kessler is trying to put himself back on the map by fighting someone recognizable and proven. Froch and Bute are neither American nor are they well-known. All of the opponents he "called out" are. They have also fought at or above 168, and if Dawson is willing to come down to Super Middleweight to fight Paul Williams (he has suggested this as a possibilty), then why not Kessler? I would love to see Dawson-Kessler at SMW over Dawson-Williams, but that's just me.

I agree on the Calzaghe rematch, it was a pointless effort, but I can't knock him for trying to avenge a loss. A Hopkins fight would be unlikely to happen, although personally, I would love to see them fight! As for Pavlik, again, he's a name who's last two fights at the time were fought 2 pounds either side of 168. I appreciate the fact that Kessler isn't a big name himself, but, on the other hand, Pavlik is currently fighting the likes of Rubio and apparently will be fighting Mora! Are they big names? Not really.

So, Dave, I understand what you're saying, and I feel the same way as you to a certain extent, but I do not think it was a "bull**** calling out exercize". We know Kessler is not afraid to call out fighters in his current division. He proved this by calling out the best SMW by far in Calzaghe, then fighting him in his own back yard.

People keep whining that needs to fight someone who is US-based, well-known and proven, but then you come along and say he needs to fight someone who ultimately wouldn't do that much for him if he fought them.

* Froch, at the time Kessler was in the US trying to set up a fight, hadn't fought Pascal and won the WBC belt. He was unproven and had nothing to offer Kessler.

* Bute, who many people feel was beaten by Andrade (who Kessler beat), is not a particulary big name, and for some reason I get the feeling Bute might not be prepared to step outside of Canada. If I was Kessler, or anyone, in fact, I would feel slightly nervous going to Canada to fight Bute due to what happened in the Andrade fight. Regardless, how many people would give Kessler major props for beating him? They would still sy he has to come to the US and fight someone with a bigger name.

* Bika, although I think he's a pretty dangerous fighter who gives people a bad night due to how rough he fights, possibly offered Kessler nothing. We have to consider at which point Kessler went to the US and "called out" the names on his list. It is very possible he did it before Bika won the IBO strap he currently holds, therefore it is very possible he offered Kessler basically nothing.

Did Calzaghe get props for beating Bika, or was he criticized for fighting a Contender? You know the answer to this one! At the time they fought, people were saying "WTF, Calzaghe is fighting a Contender! LMAO! PWN! He needs to get his ass over to the US and fight a name!"...

I believe you are spot-on with this post.

Still a Bute fight would give him US-exposure. Problem is that Bute or someone from his team last year said that Bute was not ready for Kessler. Notice also that Kessler is the man to beat at 168 and Bute has never called HIM out. At least not that I remember.

[BattlingNelson]

Yes, you're right about those two, so one can justify both those fights, I guess; although when he turned down Miranda and fought Haussler instead that was still a terrible move, IMO, although it's possible that his promoter screwed up the Miranda fight rather than him.

I think he needs a much more meaningful fight now, though, against a top contender. Haussler is only ranked #39 by boxrec and Sartison is ranked #25.

He would then also be in a much stronger position to get a fight with a big name from another division.

Regarding Miranda there was 2 separate negotiations. The first time Kessler (Palle) pulled out giving no explanation which still looks bad and put Showtime in a difficult situation.

Shortly thereafter Palle had arranged that Miranda was upgraded in the WBA rankings so that a Miranda-Kessler fight would be for the title. Palle also agreed to fight in Florida and the fight was to be televised. Warriors (Miranda) had simultaneously negotiated with Sauerland for a rematch with AA and in the end ditched Kessler and chose the Abrahammer.

After that fiasco Sartison, ranked no.3 or 4 by WBA fought the no.1 ranked Kessler for the title vacated/stripped off Mundine, who refused to defend against Kessler, for the title. However the no.2 ranked fighter filed a protest since he was bypassed, so Kessler was ordered by the WBA to defend against that fighter within 90(?) days. That fighter was Haussler.

Don't ask how the WBA ratings are compiled by the way. Today Gusmyl Perdomo is mandatory. His best result is a close decision loss to Sartison.

[Dave Rado]

I believe you are spot-on with this post.

Still a Bute fight would give him US-exposure. Problem is that Bute or someone from his team last year said that Bute was not ready for Kessler. Notice also that Kessler is the man to beat at 168 and Bute has never called HIM out. At least not that I remember.

I agree that the fact that no one is calling Kessler out is bad, but don't you think that a lineal champion who is not yet a big name should be doing everything he can to make meaningful fights with the top fighters in his own division, and should be calling out some of them (not just Taylor)? Then even if they say no, it will be obvious to everyone that they're ducking him, and not the other way round. I have nothing against him for trying to get fights with the 6 people he did, except that I think he should also have tried to get fights with some of the leading contenders in his own division, apart from Taylor. And also, I still think that if he really wanted to fight Dawson, he should have been willing to do so at Light Heavyweight - he's just not a big enough name yet to tempt anyone to fight him at catchweight, IMO.