Pragmatic Criticism of Recently Retired Undefeateds

[javelin_fangs]

Floyd's opposition has been tougher than Calzaghe's. Thats not to say that Floyd has an amazing resume because he doesn't. For his capabilities, abilities and potential, his resume is quite dissapointing really.

Which is my criticism as well. I don't get fanatical and borderline maniacal about it like you do, but I think we agree on this point. Had Floyd made anything resembling a concerted effort to get to 50 wins without any ties, his resume would almost necessarily have to include enough quality wins to shield him from much of the criticism he faces now.

I just feel that both Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Joe Calzaghe retired with unfinished business. Not in any one individual fighter, but in the fact that they retired without any real attempt to pass Marciano's record.

[2501]

Which is my criticism as well. I don't get fanatical and borderline maniacal about it like you do, but I think we agree on this point. Had Floyd made anything resembling a concerted effort to get to 50 wins without any ties, his resume would almost necessarily have to include enough quality wins to shield him from much of the criticism he faces now.

I just feel that both Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Joe Calzaghe retired with unfinished business. Not in any one individual fighter, but in the fact that they retired without any real attempt to pass Marciano's record.

you had to do it and then you start crying and private messaging about why people rag on you.

[KnockoutTheFat]

49-0 is not the record. There was already a guy named Brian Nielsen of Denmark who some people may have remembered who got KO'ed by a 34-year old Mike Tyson. He was 49-0 once.

[TheGreatA]

49-0 is not the record. There was already a guy named Brian Nielsen of Denmark who some people may have remembered who got KO'ed by a 34-year old Mike Tyson. He was 49-0 once.

He didn't surpass the record though.

[javelin_fangs]

you had to do it and then you start crying and private messaging about why people rag on you.

Lol...the only time I PM'd you was to forward a link to an article that I wrote praising Calzaghe's accomplishments. I did this because you were trying to call me a hypocrite on this exact topic. You said that I defended Mayweather, but criticized Calzaghe. I don't like Calzaghe. I'm a Mayweather fan. I told you that in the PM.

But you were going on fanatically about what a huge hypocrite I was being. So, I wrote you that PM to show you that even though I'm a fan and have my favorites I can and do separate the two. If you want to call that crying go ahead, but you know that what I'm writing is actually the truth.

[KnockoutTheFat]

He didn't surpass the record though.

Still, 49-0 is not the end all be all of immortality. A better example would be Yuri Boy Campas. He was 56-0. Doesn't necessarily mean he's on Marciano status at that point of his career.

[javelin_fangs]

49-0 is not the record. There was already a guy named Brian Nielsen of Denmark who some people may have remembered who got KO'ed by a 34-year old Mike Tyson. He was 49-0 once.

I don't understand how Brian Nielsen having been 49-0 at one point and then getting KO'd before he got to 50-0 before retiring with a very blemished record of 64-2 means that 49-0 is no longer the record for most wins for a fighter who retires unbeaten and untied. First of all, at no point was Nielsen even 50-0. Second, Nielsen didn't retire undefeated.

[TheGreatA]

Still, 49-0 is not the end all be all of immortality. A better example would be Yuri Boy Campas. He was 56-0. Doesn't necessarily mean he's on Marciano status.

He didn't retire undefeated though.

[javelin_fangs]

Still, 49-0 is not the end all be all of immortality. A better example would be Yuri Boy Campas. He was 56-0. Doesn't necessarily mean he's on Marciano status.

Ok, if you want to play this game I'll play along. Had Nielsen retired when he was 49-0 or Campas retired when he was 56-0 do you think they'd have been in the hall of fame? The answer is no.

Now, Mayweather and Calzaghe on the other hand are "retired" and undefeated. They're 39-0 and 46-0 respectively. If neither was to ever fight again they'd still both be elected to the hall of fame. Yet, people will still question whether or not they retired with unfinished business. Do you think that is the case? If so, why?

That is the point of the this thread. I know that Julio Cesar Chavez was probably the best example of someone who could have retired with HOF worthy career having had a better record than Marciano. That's not the damn point of the thread and you know it.

The point is that both Mayweather and Calzaghe were more interested in retiring "on top." Than in reaching milestones, whether that's breaking Marciano's record or beating more fellow undefeated fighter, beating more champions, etc. I listed the fact that neither even tried to break Marciano's record as one major criticism.

Especially in Calzaghe's case he could have easily promoted the last part of his career as a quest to break Marciano's record and if he'd done so fighting good opposition he'd have gotten quite a bit more credit for it than he gets now, even if he'd fallen short of the record. That's the point of this thread...not so that you can debate the validity of Marciano's record.

If I'd wanted to talk about the validity of Marciano's record don't you think I'd have mentioned his name in the first post? I deliberately left it out so as not to get this thread down into a Marciano debate, but some of you people insist on doing that sort of stuff.

[fitty_mafioso]

I dont think its reasonable to have expected mayweather to get to 49-0, all he should have really done was face some of the elite welterweights.
Calzaghe should have tried though, with a bhop rematch, glen johnson and chad dawson as the final 3 fights.