My Truth On Muhammed Ali

[MELLY-MEL...]

Bro, how many heavy weight champs aren't womanizers.

I don't agree with it, but when your the alpha male of the human race... it gets to your head and your morals.

no it's weakness actually. if that alpha male **** gets in your head, and makes you like that your very far from being a real alpha. percieved roles are far from reality!

[Russian Express]

What I am saying here is, he is a proven track record of betraying and lying that doesnt just apply to Frazier.

I mean Ali called Frazier an uncle tom, but met with the KKK for ****s sake!

Yet he is encouraged a this huge role model and idolised, i think some of this is totally unjustified.

I'm not making excuses, just explaining my view of his actions....

He called Frazier an Uncle Tom because he truely believed it, and he met with those *******s from the KKK, because the NOI preached the same bull**** separation theory... in their warped minds the two societies would take control of the US and have a segregated America.

The power of religion and racial tension in brainwashing someone, is truely frightening.

I don't place Ali on a pedestal, he was a great fighter, entertaining personality.. but he was still flawed like every other man.

[Russian Express]

no it's weakness actually. if that alpha male **** gets in your head, and makes you like that your very far from being a real alpha. percieved roles are far from reality!

True......

[TheGreatA]

I believe the Thrilla in Manila document was somewhat sensational and most certainly biased.

Joe Frazier is my favorite fighter and I agree that Ali could get vicious with some of his insults but it wasn't just Ali insulting Frazier, they were both in a war of words against each other.

You can go and watch some interviews with both men before Ali had been allowed to box again, and Frazier was behaving very arrogantly towards Ali, mostly because he was not recognized as the true champion even though he held the title. Ali had been his target from the beginning, Frazier had always wanted to beat him in the ring.

As much as I like Smokin' Joe, the insults are not the only reason he is bitter towards Ali (although I would say they are a big part of it). Losing the trilogy had a lot to do with it, he came so very close to winning.

[Technical_Skill]

I'm not making excuses, just explaining my view of his actions....

He called Frazier an Uncle Tom because he truely believed it, and he met with those *******s from the KKK, because the NOI preached the same bull**** separation theory... in their warped minds the two societies would take control of the US and have a segregated America.

The power of religion and racial tension in brainwashing someone, is truely frightening.

I don't place Ali on a pedestal, he was a great fighter, entertaining personality.. but he was still flawed like every other man.

I know why he met with the KKK, but he criticized Frazier for having dealings with white people, when met with the KKK, it seems there is one rule for ali and another for fraizer.

Im not sure he truly believe Frazier was a tom, if so then why after the 3rd fight (i think) did he sent someone to apologize to Joe and said it was to promote the fight. Frazier would not accept the apology cos Ali wasnt man enough to say it to his face.

The media portray Ali as a hero.

But if you not only look at the things he said to Frazier but the way he hounded him in the run up to the fight.

I think its clear Ali was a weak, impressionable man, who was scared of Frazier and did whatever he could to gain an
advantage.

He was in a position of huge responsibility, people idolized him, and he abused that position greatly.

[Miburo]

A fictional film character gets more respect than Frazier in Philadelphia, sickening though it may be. He certainly came out on the losing end of their clash in virtually all aspects.

[dnfisher]

I know why he met with the KKK, but he criticized Frazier for having dealings with white people, when met with the KKK, it seems there is one rule for ali and another for fraizer.

Im not sure he truly believe Frazier was a tom, if so then why after the 3rd fight (i think) did he sent someone to apologize to Joe and said it was to promote the fight. Frazier would not accept the apology cos Ali wasnt man enough to say it to his face.

The media portray Ali as a hero.

But if you not only look at the things he said to Frazier but the way he hounded him in the run up to the fight.

I think its clear Ali was a weak, impressionable man, who was scared of Frazier and did whatever he could to gain an
advantage.

He was in a position of huge responsibility, people idolized him, and he abused that position greatly.

Ali certainly was vicious towards Frazier, but it seems like you're judging him based almost solely around Ali/Frazier III.

What else do you know about him? Ever read any of his biographies? Everything I've read or seen said he'd give anything to his fans. How many fighters do you know as popular as him that have open training camps when anyone can come at any time?

He might be glorified by the media now, but there was a time when he was represented terribly in the media. Some of that was correct because of his actions (relating to the NOI), but he was mistreated in so many ways. He was stripped of his titles and unable to fight for 3 years for being a conscientious objector!

I disagree with judging Ali based around this one fight. He went too far in bashing Frazier, but he saw it as fight promotion (at least by the third fight).

[Libido Sanchez]

Technical_Skill, I respect your opinion, but I don't think you can really judge Ali based on one phase of his life. For starters, his life as Cassius Clay and his life as Muhammad Ali could be seen like he's two different people (except some of the same qualities were always there). Hell, his life as Ali has had it's different phases in itself. You do have to consider his involvement in the NOI and his boxing ban having influence on him. (I once saw a doc on Ali that followed is life right before the 3-year ban and immediately after it, and you could see the difference in his personality. He went through changes.)

I agree he treated Frazier badly. But I think with Ali, the good outweighs the bad. Like others have stated, Ali wasn't always portrayed as a hero, in fact quite the opposite. I think it's unimaginable for us regular folks to realize the incredible pressure the man faced in his life. He was not only brave enough to want to be Heavyweight Champ and risk his health to achieve that, but he also took on the US Govt. That takes courage.

I'm not saying pressure is an excuse to treat others badly. But Ali often made a conscious effort to try and uplift his people and I'm sure he inspired many people to reach their own personal goals.

America was different back then and so far as sports go, today it seems like very few athletes care about social issues. Today, it's just product endorsements and salaries and personal glory and steroids. Ali knew it was important for him to be a hero and I think he strived to be that. He obviously wasn't perfect. The stuff he said to Frazier was messed-up, but I don't think he hated Frazier. It was said to promote a fight and there could have been better ways for him to do it, but he said some incredibly negative things and ran with them.

I guess one way of looking at it is he was a boxer and an activist and those roles unfortunately conflicted when in trying to promote a fight and psyche himself up (and psyche out Smokin' Joe) he said some terrible things. I mean, it's no secret that Ali could be arrogant, so he was probably thinking with his boxer's brain rather than his leader brain at those moments, if that makes any sense. Ali thrived off crowd reaction and if things he said got attention he kept it going.

But, anyways, I'm starting to ramble. I'm not excusing Ali for the Frazier comments... I'm just saying try to look at the complete picture.

[Xyei]

Ali is glorified as a "hero" quite a bit by the press. I've never been too fond of him as a person but he was truly a great fighter.

[Bogler]

Ali's treatment of Frazier in the run up to their fight was absolutely disgraceful. To not only label Frazier as a 'Gorilla', but also claim he was 'working for the enemy' (Whites supremacists and whites against civil rights) in that time of social and political climate in racially divided America was childish, damaging and divisive. Instead of using the fight to present a unified front on favor of better conditions for working class blacks in America, Ali used common racial stereotypes of the kind the KKK and other such organisation would use, against his own kind.

I reject the media interpretation of Ali as this leader who used boxing as a conduit to educate and inspire people to question America's involvement in the Vietnam war as well as America's own issues with race and its position in society. To myself the documentary on Thriller in Manilla showed evidence to suggest Ali was impressionable rather than a decisive human being. He was confirmed by some as a mouthpiece for the Nation of Islam, something which had been suggested in the years before. It was even stated that Ali was told to say his reason for not going to war in Vietnam concerned lines of race and that actually his own reasons had nothing to do with his core belief system and values.

Through it all, it seems Frazier was the one who was actually the real working class black man Ali claimed he was speaking out for. Ali apparently didn't have a job in his early years, whilst Frazier worked laboriously in the fields grafting to make living, often faced by the fiercest of racism.

It seems it was Frazier who even lent Ali money and supported Ali as he tried to gain back his boxing license after it was taken away over Vietnam.

It appears Frazier was the one, who received death threats after Ali's cynical portrayal of him as an inside man who made money and built up a business based on betraying his own people. Frazier's children were even targeted and its seems a genuine threat of violence existed towards his family.

All this, because Ali was scared of Frazier, he knew what Frazier could do to him and he sold himself out completely just to gain and edge in a boxing match. Thats' all this was, a boxing match, but thanks to Ali, he managed to destroy part of another human for life. Frazier cannot ever forgive him for what Ali has done to him and his family. He might say it every now and again, but Ive seen footage of him taking credit for putting Ali in his current condition and claiming its justice for what Ali done to him.

Im sick of the media portraying Ali to be something he is clearly not, in many respects, he is a distortion, a media creation. In my eyes he is great fighter, but not a great man.

Rant over.

how do you feel about Ali's honorary degree (doctorate of humanities) compared to the same of pacquiao's? who do you think is more deserving?