Complaint: The Ring's p4p list

[Haglerwins]

Very easily. Ask Tito or Tarver.



Of course he looked like a pro fighter. What a ****** thing to say. Given that he won twice as many rounds as Hopkins then I don't know what else it can be called other than domination.



Not the only fight in recent times.



And? Calzaghe done exactly what we would expect a top fighter to do.



If you are going to do it I would prefer if you discussed his level of performance in each of his fights because you haven't really done that in any meaningful way for Joe's.

^ That is some serious fan boy ****. I won't even bother dissecting the whole thing. I stopped after your Tito and Tarver answer really. Tito is more done than Jones and Tarver's performances against Roy were all high. That includes a KTFO in 2 rounds against a better version of the man your boy fought. You can't be serious with your reply.

[Mozza]

^ That is some serious fan boy ****. I won't even bother dissecting the whole thing. I stopped after your Tito and Tarver answer really. Tito is more done than Jones and Tarver's performances against Roy were all high. That includes a KTFO in 2 rounds against a better version of the man your boy fought. You can't be serious with your reply.

Whether Tito is more done than Roy is frankly irrelevant to the point I was responding to. As for Tarver, I'm talking specifically about their third fight. Jones was humped but Tarver looked lackadaisical, uninterested and at times came close to throwing away what should have been a routine victory. In short, typical Tarver.

[FasTHarD]

1. Manny Pacquiao

2. Juan Manuel Marquez

3. Joe Calzaghe

4. Bernard Hopkins

5. Israel Vazquez

6. Shane Mosley

7. Rafael Marquez

8. Ivan Calderon

9. Ricky Hatton

10. Celestino Caballero

-----------------------------------------------------------

I dislike Calzaghe, but why is he not number 2?

I also dislike Vic Darchinyan, but why is Shane Mosley, all of a sudden, catapulted up to number six? Vic, imo, accomplished more by winning the WBC, WBA, IBF belts by beating Dimitri Kirilov and the very talented and once p4p fighter, Cristian Mijares.



Celestino Caballero? Ricky Hatton? okay, I guess...


is today's p4p lists based on a fighter's style or more on accomplishments?


someone explain Ring's reasoning to me

WTF Rafael Marquez doing in the p4p list? He lost his last two fights.....

They rank Manuel Marquez too high... He lost to Pac p4p no.1 and won against shot past prime Casamayor then they put him @ no. 2 spot? No ***in way....

Here's my non bias p4p list:
1.Pacquiao
2.Calzaghe
3.Hopkins
4.Marquez
5.Vasquez
6.Mosley
7.Calderon
8.Cotto
9.Hatton
10.Darchinyan

[Haglerwins]

Whether Tito is more done than Roy is frankly irrelevant to the point I was responding to. As for Tarver, I'm talking specifically about their third fight. Jones was humped but Tarver looked lackadaisical, uninterested and at times came close to throwing away what should have been a routine victory. In short, typical Tarver.

Tarver nearly knocked out Roy with another single counter in that fight lol. Man just stop. Your boy couldn't put away a beyond broken man and got dropped in the first round against him. There's no way you an argue Calzaghe's last fights make him look better than Marquez other than the fact that he has the "W" in all of them.

[DarchinyFAN]

1. Manny Pacquiao

2. Juan Manuel Marquez

3. Joe Calzaghe

4. Bernard Hopkins

5. Israel Vazquez

6. Shane Mosley

7. Rafael Marquez

8. Ivan Calderon

9. Ricky Hatton

10. Celestino Caballero

-----------------------------------------------------------

I dislike Calzaghe, but why is he not number 2?

I also dislike Vic Darchinyan, but why is Shane Mosley, all of a sudden, catapulted up to number six? Vic, imo, accomplished more by winning the WBC, WBA, IBF belts by beating Dimitri Kirilov and the very talented and once p4p fighter, Cristian Mijares.



Celestino Caballero? Ricky Hatton? okay, I guess...


is today's p4p lists based on a fighter's style or more on accomplishments?


someone explain Ring's reasoning to me

I could go either way on Calzaghe vs JMM when it comes to the #2 spot, especially when we are just talking degrees of greatness (I mean its a sport with 1000's upon 1000s of participant and this is for the #2 spot).

I do think there are probably some more deserving candidates for that #10 spot than Caballero (though I do like him as a boxer, and feel he is also in that area) one of those being Darchinyan.

My main complaint is them giving a pitty spot to Ivan Calderon, likely just based on him carrying around that "0". The guy's resume is more empty than Calzaghe's (who people still complain about). I know he fights in a weak division, but even so its no reason to reward him especially since he never cleaned out minimum or light fly.

[Mozza]

Tarver nearly knocked out Roy with another single counter in that fight lol. Man just stop. Your boy couldn't put away a beyond broken man and got dropped in the first round against him. There's no way you an argue Calzaghe's last fights make him look better than Marquez other than the fact that he has the "W" in all of them.

Do you think mentioning one punch in a fight proves anything? Jones had Tarver in trouble as well, so what? My point, which you have consistently failed to address, is that Calzaghe's level of performance is higher than JMM's. You've failed to address that very simple point in every other post so I won't hold my breath waiting for you to do so now.

[Haglerwins]

Do you think mentioning one punch in a fight proves anything? Jones had Tarver in trouble as well, so what? My point, which you have consistently failed to address, is that Calzaghe's level of performance is higher than JMM's. You've failed to address that very simple point in every other post so I won't hold my breath waiting for you to do so now.

There's more to performance level than just being agile and gunning your arms 1000 times. If that's the critique for top notch performance level than Paul Williams is the best boxer on the planet. You're knocking Tarver in a fight he won pretty easy bottom line and against a better 'a little confidence left' Jones than Cal originally said was a waste of time to fight and then fought instead of fighting Tarver (who wanted to fight). Singling Tarver as not performing highly against a Jones he was in no real danger of losing once it got serious is ridiculous when he made the man his boy and into the current state he is in.. That's a failed argument imv. You had the nerve to stick Tito in there like it was worth something too.


Uhh and Marquez arguably beat the #1 p4p fighter on the planet 2x and looks for some of the biggest fights he can muster. Your boy is hiding away in his shed trying to figure out how to get away with fighting Froch in a farewell fight if he boxes again, other than taking on Hopkins, Dawson or Johnson. I happen to take balls into account when I rate a fighter p4p when the ranking gets tough. A guy Calzaghe's age just KTFO of the legit top fighter in his weight class just because he was feeling like that. He's not retiring when he knows there still some business to be taken care of. Also something I consider when analyzing the top of the p4p ranks as it gets tough.

[Haglerwins]

*double post*

[Mozza]

There's more to performance level than just being agile and gunning your arms 1000 times. If that's the critique for top notch performance level than Paul Williams is the best boxer on the planet. You're knocking Tarver in a fight he won pretty easy bottom line and against a better 'a little confidence left' Jones than Cal originally said was a waste of time to fight and then fought instead of fighting Tarver (who wanted to fight). Singling Tarver as not performing highly against a Jones he was in no real danger of losing once it got serious is ridiculous when he made the man his boy and into the current state he is in.. That's a failed argument imv. You had the nerve to stick Tito in there like it was worth something too.

I don't know if you missed the initial point I responded or whether you are being deliberately ingorant but for the avoidance of doubt here it is:

"How can anyone's level of performance NOT be high against Jones?"

I replied by citing Tarver's and Tito's performances. I have since clarified that I was referring to Tarver's third match with Jones which was less than inspiring. If you disagree with that then fine but mentioning that Tarver was responsible for putting Jones in his current state is irrelevant and incorrect quite frankly. As for Tito, why the hell shouldn't I mention him? The point was that anybody would look good against Roy, not anybody except a shot Tito Trinidad.

Uhh and Marquez arguably beat the #1 p4p fighter on the planet 2x and looks for some of the biggest fights he can muster. Your boy is hiding away in his shed trying to figure out how to get away with fighting Froch in a farewell fight if he boxes again, other than taking on Hopkins, Dawson or Johnson.

This is complete rubbish. Calzaghe stated he would consider retirement long ago. Implying that he is ducking Dawson is clutching at straws. Suggesting he is ducking Hopkins who he beat less than 12 months ago is absurd. Hinting that he is ducking Johnson is laughable, especially when you're simultaneously criticising Carl Froch.

I happen to take balls into account when I rate a fighter p4p when the ranking gets tough.

Calzaghe's balls are massive. How do I know? Because I can only fit one in my mouth at a time.

A guy Calzaghe's age just KTFO of the legit top fighter in his weight class just because he was feeling like that. He's not retiring when he knows there still some business to be taken care of.

Mayweather done it. It is up to each fighter to decide when they want to call it a day.

[S.G.]

sorry Mozza but your argument loses more and more credibility each post you make

i'm a big fan of Joe but some people really take it to extremes

Also, on the subject of The Ring's ratings..... In what sense does Hatton deserve to be above Darchinyan???

Darchinyan's victory over Mijares is probably actually better than any Hatton win, not to mention he looked great in the process

I'm pretty certain that Darch would mop the floor with Hatton in a hypothetical match-up

And he's looked very impressive since his loss to Donaire (last 4 fights), while Hatton's last four fights are; a simple but hardly credible win over a shot to pieces Castillo, an utter domination at the hands of Mayweather - i mean, the whooping he recieved was so bad it nullifies the retort of "there's no shame in losing to the p4p #1", a shaky performance over a shot contender who was coming off the back of a loss, and Paulie Malignaggi - a pretty average victory all things considered. Certainly no match for Darch's last win anyway