Should the Ref. Have Called a KD against Berto in Rd. 1?!?

[mspiegelo]

Berto didn't even land a punch during that sequence.

true. huge difference from two fatigued guys pushing each other around and falling over each other, then berto getting smashed with a straight left and flying across the ring. off balance or not, i think it can be argued it was kd-worthy.

if you disagree, that is fair, but the comparison to collazo falling over/getting pushed over in the 12th doesnt fly. if that was a knockdown, then how about counting the time collazo pushed over berto when they were falling all over the ring as a knockdown, too. and if thats the case, there is a strong argument that the the drool lou hit berto with while he was on the ground merits a 10-7 round for lou on principal....

[catalinul]

true. huge difference from two fatigued guys pushing each other around and falling over each other, then berto getting smashed with a straight left and flying across the ring. off balance or not, i think it can be argued it was kd-worthy.

if you disagree, that is fair, but the comparison to collazo falling over/getting pushed over in the 12th doesnt fly. if that was a knockdown, then how about counting the time collazo pushed over berto when they were falling all over the ring as a knockdown, too. and if thats the case, there is a strong argument that the the drool lou hit berto with while he was on the ground merits a 10-7 round for lou on principal....

I think neither was a KD,but if it is one it would be the Berto stumble in the first round.But really neither were KD material.

[Xyei]

No. It was not a knock down. It was pissing me off that Bob kept saying it was. It was a great shot but it wasn't a knock down. He did go flying back to the ropes but he wasn't holding himself up with the ropes.

I think Collazo edged the fight though. I thought he should have won but it was so close that I can see why Berto was awarded with the win.

[mspiegelo]

No. It was not a knock down. It was pissing me off that Bob kept saying it was. It was a great shot but it wasn't a knock down. He did go flying back to the ropes but he wasn't holding himself up with the ropes.

I think Collazo edged the fight though. I thought he should have won but it was so close that I can see why Berto was awarded with the win.

i always said that a close fight would go to berto. no way hbo, al haymon and/or dibella were letting a close one go to lou....

[Xyei]

i always said that a close fight would go to berto. no way hbo, al haymon and/or dibella were letting a close one go to lou....

I completely agree man. Collazo would really have had to fuck him up or stop him to get the win. Collazo fought a good fight though. He was totally gassed in the last two rounds but I think he did enough to win the fight. I'm not complaining though.

It's too bad we will most likely never see a rematch.

[PRboxingfan]

Any time the ropes help to keep you on your feet, it's a KD. Berto would've clearly went to the ground if the ropes weren't there, so it should be a KD.

[Xyei]

Any time the ropes help to keep you on your feet, it's a KD. Berto would've clearly went to the ground if the ropes weren't there, so it should be a KD.

I like the quote in your avatar but you spelled ridiculous wrong.

You can't really say with certainty that Berto would have gone down. I see your point though. My point is, Ali would have gone down numerous times against Foreman with his rope-a-dope antics in the "rumble in the jungle." He was leaning way back and if the ropes weren't there, he would have fallen on his ass numerous times.

It's a fine line.

[Xyei]

Thing is, when your leaning on the ropes, intentionately fall back on them a bit either to stay or bounce back, your technically being held up by the ropes. If they weren't there you'd be on your arse.

So it's difficult to really judge and they'll always be varying views on it. Plus don't different organisations have slightly differently worded rules on it? I'm sure someone posted IBF's recently for a bout awhile back.

Yes, I agree. That's what I was getting at in my previous post. Tried to give you K but couldn't.

[Guest]

Brooklyn fighters never seem to win the big one. history repeating itself in recent history.


although collazo could be 31-2 right now had the scoring been slightly different in this and the hatton.

bill clancy is usually a good ref and a good judge. i think he effed up with his 116-111. he could have proly gone along with the crew and had it 114-113 berto.

that wasn't a kd by any stretch.

[MANGLER]

For a technical KD, you gotta hit the ropes or corner at such an angle that you clearly woulda hit the floor had it been at center ring. Good example is the 12th rd of Izzy-Raf 3. I think it was excusable.