Holyfield says Joe Louis couldn't make it in boxing today

[KabukiJoe]

Yes, of course; they will not make you an Ali, however; Take an Ali and put him on certain performance enhancing drugs, and he may become even better. So if we pit "natural" Ali vs. "performance enhancing drug user" Ali...is this fair?

What it can do for someone is put them into that next level of "Alpha-Male" level. So, for that "natural" Alpha-male who is doing it right, now has competition from somebody that is taking "help" to get to his level. Does the Natural Alpha-Male come out on top...not sure anymore?


I think it is wrong to the "natural" person.


The problem many face, especially in the Olympics is...should I take performance enhancing drugs just to be on par with the rest that are taking them even though I am "naturally" a phenom athlete. Maybe that Phenom who is natural is no longer a Phenom because the guy that is getting "help" has boosted his performance to phenom capabilities.


Of course, this is as far as Sports goes. I am well aware they are used for Medical purposes and certain people need them just to live a "normal" life. If this is still fair in "nature," it depends on your philosophy.

...I disagree...they only enhance "what you have"...Floyd would still be a "rabbit running around the ring" if he were on roids, only faster...as far as Holyfield, he's got a great work ethic and that's what roids would do for him, make him throw more punches...but since he doesn't really hit all that hard, so what?...if Mike Tyson was on them, so what, he still has no heart and no amount of roids will make him have any heart...same with Wlad, no amount of roids will make him take a punch, he just doesn't have a good chin, and nothing can be done about it...there are things that are just what they are and contrary to popular belief, roids do not make you superhuman...the people that fail even with the help of roids are the ones that are against them...


Kabuki Joe

[potatoes]

Runners are running faster. Jumpers are jumping higher. Throwers are throwing farther. Does that mean that boxers are boxing better? Well, look at the bums that Wladimir Klitschko has been knocking out lately. They can't even defend themselves.

[totalstranga]

it's just not fair to the old timers to compare. I mean I am 6' and 200 lbs and I bet I could beat the **** out of Marvin Hart but is that fair?

[Fenom]

Ali's right in a way when he talks about Joe's footwork; it may be to slow to get to Ali in his prime (prior to exile).

Now I'm not sure if Joe shuffled in the manner he did because he just didn't have the speed of foot, which I doubt since I've seen footage of him running, or was he just not trained to fight in a Dempsey like manner with sprinting forward to make up room; which is possible.
But Ali shouldn't act like it will be easy; he was knocked down twice before his exile by fighters of lesser quality than Joe.

Ali's right.. in a fight between them two i think he'd have Joe baffled all night long with his movement, back in Joes day heavyweights werent trained to move like that, the only time you saw movement like that was in the lighter weights and those were only with your Willie Peps and such

The way Ali moved in the ring was something completely unheard of... a heavyweight moving like this? that quick?! even today heavyweights dont move like Ali did

[deemo]

the only reason why louis couldnt make it today is because he is dead and i still give him a decent chance against some fighters.

[potatoes]

Ali's right.. in a fight between them two i think he'd have Joe baffled all night long with his movement, back in Joes day heavyweights werent trained to move like that, the only time you saw movement like that was in the lighter weights and those were only with your Willie Peps and such

The way Ali moved in the ring was something completely unheard of... a heavyweight moving like this? that quick?! even today heavyweights dont move like Ali did

Hmmm.....so you are saying that heavyweights before Muhammad Ali had poor footwork and heavyweights after weren't much better. Look sonny, I have been watching boxing longer than you have been alive and I can tell you the only heavyweight who has moved like Ali was Larry Holmes. Guess what, 25 years ago Holmes was condemned for being an Ali imitation. So here is the system: If a boxer moves like Ali he gets criticized and if he doesn't move like Ali he gets criticized.

You clowns really make me laugh.

[cuzfozzy]

ali copied srr anyway
it all came from willie pep

[Fulcrum29]

the only reason why louis couldnt make it today is because he is dead and i still give him a decent chance against some fighters.

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[KabukiJoe]

ali copied srr anyway
it all came from willie pep

...Ali's style didn't make him great, his heart made him great...if Mayweather took the beatings that Ali did, he'd have become a club fighter...that's why we are STILL talking about Ali, because he had the heart of a champion...Ali never quit like uncle Roger...there were times he could have, but he didn't...


Kabuki Joe

[Benny Leonard]

...I disagree...they only enhance "what you have"...Floyd would still be a "rabbit running around the ring" if he were on roids, only faster...as far as Holyfield, he's got a great work ethic and that's what roids would do for him, make him throw more punches...but since he doesn't really hit all that hard, so what?...if Mike Tyson was on them, so what, he still has no heart and no amount of roids will make him have any heart...same with Wlad, no amount of roids will make him take a punch, he just doesn't have a good chin, and nothing can be done about it...there are things that are just what they are and contrary to popular belief, roids do not make you superhuman...the people that fail even with the help of roids are the ones that are against them...


Kabuki Joe

So we'll stick with Holyfield. What they can help him obtain is increased muscle mass and strength to compete with the HWs.

It's the same with lower weight class fighters that want to continue to move up. Naturally, their body might stop at one or two division up, but, with the use of steroids, they can pack on lean muscle mass while keeping their stamina, speed, and power. Stamina of course tends to come in the use of EPO; like Shane did. True, many steroids can increase red blood cells to help with stamina, but I'm not entirely sure on how much stamina.


Tyson had heart by the way. If he didn't, he would never have become Champion. If he didn't, he would have quit after two rounds against Douglas. And, he would have retired right afterwards.

Heart can also be taught or at least brought out with choice...ask Holyfield about how his Mother did this with him. Heart is also a part of motivation and when you lose that motivation, your heart can sink. Heart is also your condition.