MAYweather vs PACquaio: BATTLE FOR SUPREMACY !!!

[Benny Leonard]

All favoring PBF. let him have a tune up and fight at a catch weight where the former flyweight is fighting in leveled grounds.

"Former Flyweight"

I counting the TWO KO LOSSES against Pac heavily now.

Freddie called Pac a boy back then and now he is matured so I was going to let it go because even I had the same thoughts.

Flawless also brought up how Pac and Floyd were fighting at the same weight at the same age when Pac turned pro. The difference being, Floyd had a bit of money so he could eat.
Pac on the other hand took time to mature because he was slow to mature. Like today: Freddie says Pac is fully matured and this is also why he had to keep moving up in weight and can't go back down to 135 anymore (which is the same division he showed up at 147 by fight-time).


Bottom line: The fight should be at 147 because that is where Floyd fought last and he hasn't fought below that in since '05. The only reason anybody would want to see it at 140 or a "catch-weight" (which isn't even a division and you want to alter the divisions for Pac), would be to be in line with what Freddie Roach said about taking something away from Floyd before the fight.

I'm not in favor of that and because I know you are, it shows me something about you.

When has Floyd ever asked for a "catch-weight"?
When Oscar told him to move up to 154, he did. When Oscar wanted to pick the gloves, Floyd allowed him.

I have some problems with Floyd and his career, but if he were to come back, in this case, I would agree with him if he wanted it at 147.

What are you so SCARED OF with Floyd that you would need to get him to work harder and diet to make the weight and focus on the weight more than the actual fight?
I bet Pac doesn't care.
Floyd is already in his 30's, has retierd twice already and is physically and mentally not at his best. Mentally he may be able to get it back if he can get the hunger to prove himself back again, but physically, he is never going to be at his best again.

PAC ALREADY FOUGHT AT 147 AND WON BIG...
You have no leverage. END

[Pullcounter]

Bottom line: The fight should be at 147 because that is where Floyd fought last and he hasn't fought below that in since '05. The only reason anybody would want to see it at 140 or a "catch-weight" (which isn't even a division and you want to alter the divisions for Pac), would be to be in line with what Freddie Roach said about taking something away from Floyd before the fight.

a catchweight is necessary because floyd is the bigger fighter

I'm not in favor of that and because I know you are, it shows me something about you.

fairness?

When has Floyd ever asked for a "catch-weight"?

he demanded that winky weigh in at 154 on fight night to make winky/floyd happen.

When Oscar told him to move up to 154, he did. When Oscar wanted to pick the gloves, Floyd allowed him.

that's cause if floyd didn't oscar would walk.

I have some problems with Floyd and his career, but if he were to come back, in this case, I would agree with him if he wanted it at 147.

at 147 floyd has all the advantages except for speed.

What are you so SCARED OF with Floyd that you would need to get him to work harder and diet to make the weight and focus on the weight more than the actual fight?

floyd is the bigger man

I bet Pac doesn't care.

I doubt he does

Floyd is already in his 30's, has retierd twice already and is physically and mentally not at his best. Mentally he may be able to get it back if he can get the hunger to prove himself back again, but physically, he is never going to be at his best again.

then maybe he should stay retired

PAC ALREADY FOUGHT AT 147 AND WON BIG...

that's only one time against an oscar who couldn't pull the trigger

You have no leverage. END

pac has the leverage

[Benny Leonard]

a catchweight is necessary because floyd is the bigger fighter


fairness?


he demanded that winky weigh in at 154 on fight night to make winky/floyd happen.


that's cause if floyd didn't oscar would walk.


at 147 floyd has all the advantages except for speed.


floyd is the bigger man


I doubt he does


then maybe he should stay retired


that's only one time against an oscar who couldn't pull the trigger


pac has the leverage

Then why did Pac move up to 147 to fight Oscar?

Oscar is bigger than Floyd and Floyd fought Oscar at 154. All of a sudden it is OK for Pac to fight Oscar at 147 but not Floyd at 147?

Again, Pac weighed in at 147 by fight-time against Diaz. About 150 for Oscar.
The only thing they would be doing is skipping the charade of the weigh-in; a weight neither will wegh-in at by fight time. The key however to making it lower than 147 is to keep it on Floyd's mind about the weight throughout his training and make him "work for it" (like Freddie said) so it could take something away from him before the fight.

Advantages for Pac:
Pac has been active, is younger, looks in peak form and his physically healthy...along with mentally motivated.

Floyd:
Brittle hands and will probably not be allowed to wear "Winning" gloves or wrap his hands a certain way; hasn't fought at his best for years; retired twice already which shows you where he is mentally; and has been inactive for more than a year. Remember what Freddie said: "You can't be a part-time fighter" and be at your best.
I think he should stay retired.

Floyd and Winky: I don't remember what was going on with that fight but if Floyd did want Winky to weigh-in at the actual division weight they were fighting at by fight-time, what's wrong with that?
It was a 154 pound fight, right?
WOW, so Floyd wanted Winky to actually follow the weight that the fight is being promoted as...154.
154 is not a "catch-weight" but a division weight.

Pac has little leverage. Floyd can still continue to rip him about his two KO losses along with his loss to a past prime Morales and his debatable decision wins against JMM. And, the only reason Pac is considered "P4P" the best fighter is because he {Floyd} retired.
Floyd would use this.

I think if Floyd comes back he should just go for Cotto. Cotto is more deserving, the fight will be made at 147, and it will be greater for his legacy. Pac would be great for Bank though. Plus, more signs point to Cotto be more willing to fight Floyd at this point than Pac wanting to (or at least Roach and Arum wanting to make the fight happen).

Again, I doubt Pac would care where the fight would be held. After all, Pac was the one who brought up fighting Margarito.

[Pullcounter]

Then why did Pac move up to 147 to fight Oscar?

for the money?

Oscar is bigger than Floyd and Floyd fought Oscar at 154. All of a sudden it is OK for Pac to fight Oscar at 147 but not Floyd at 147?

cause it wouldn't be fair for pac to go up to 154.

Again, Pac weighed in at 147 by fight-time against Diaz. About 150 for Oscar.

yeah, but you know that's not how boxing works

The only thing they would be doing is skipping the charade of the weigh-in; a weight neither will wegh-in at by fight time. The key however to making it lower than 147 is to keep it on Floyd's mind about the weight throughout his training and make him "work for it" (like Freddie said) so it could take something away from him before the fight.

definitely, that would make it fair since floyd is the bigger guy

Advantages for Pac:
Pac has been active, is younger, looks in peak form and his physically healthy...along with mentally motivated.
Floyd:
Brittle hands and will probably not be allowed to wear "Winning" gloves or wrap his hands a certain way; hasn't fought at his best for years; retired twice already which shows you where he is mentally; and has been inactive for more than a year. Remember what Freddie said: "You can't be a part-time fighter" and be at your best.
I think he should stay retired.

I'll give you activity, and that floyd has brittle hands...

but floyd isn't that much older, and floyd is always mentally focused

I think floyd will be able to haggle over gloves successfully.

I also think he should stay retired.

Floyd and Winky: I don't remember what was going on with that fight but if Floyd did want Winky to weigh-in at the actual division weight they were fighting at by fight-time, what's wrong with that?
It was a 154 pound fight, right?
WOW, so Floyd wanted Winky to actually follow the weight that the fight is being promoted as...154.
154 is not a "catch-weight" but a division weight.

yeah, but you know that's not how boxing works

Pac has little leverage. Floyd can still continue to rip him about his two KO losses along with his loss to a past prime Morales and his debatable decision wins against JMM. And, the only reason Pac is considered "P4P" the best fighter is because he {Floyd} retired.
Floyd would use this.

that must be why floyd doesn't want to fight his "tune up" fight on ppv because it would ruin his leverage in future fights.

I think if Floyd comes back he should just go for Cotto. Cotto is more deserving, the fight will be made at 147, and it will be greater for his legacy. Pac would be great for Bank though. Plus, more signs point to Cotto be more willing to fight Floyd at this point than Pac wanting to (or at least Roach and Arum wanting to make the fight happen).

i don't think arum will put either pac or cotto in with floyd. floyd's best bet is to fight mosley.

Again, I doubt Pac would care where the fight would be held. After all, Pac was the one who brought up fighting Margarito.

i'm pretty sure pac's team would ask margo to come in at a catchweight... that's why margo was under the WW limit against mosley.

[boxaholic]

Floyd fighting at 140 isn't happening. Mayweather Jr. is the one with all the advantages. He is going to make more than any fighter now. Floyd will fight at 147 JMM and then dismantle Pacman at 147 at the end of the year. The only fighter that Mayweather might lose a couple of rounds to is Miguel Cotto .

[Horus]

for the money?


cause it wouldn't be fair for pac to go up to 154.


yeah, but you know that's not how boxing works


definitely, that would make it fair since floyd is the bigger guy


I'll give you activity, and that floyd has brittle hands...

but floyd isn't that much older, and floyd is always mentally focused

I think floyd will be able to haggle over gloves successfully.

I also think he should stay retired.


yeah, but you know that's not how boxing works


that must be why floyd doesn't want to fight his "tune up" fight on ppv because it would ruin his leverage in future fights.


i don't think arum will put either pac or cotto in with floyd. floyd's best bet is to fight mosley.


i'm pretty sure pac's team would ask margo to come in at a catchweight... that's why margo was under the WW limit against mosley.

If you feel this way even after Pacquiao has fought at WW.

Then I hope Floyd makes Cotto fight at a catchweight since cotto is bigger.
and make cotto think about making weight instead of fighting at the weight division that floyd himself has also fought in without never making people fight nobody at a catchweight.

he should make cotto have a day of the fight weigh in too, just too make sure he doesnt outweigh floyd by 15 pounds come fight time.

As a matter of fight floyd should do that for every fighter that is bigger than him.

He should try to win the fight on the scales instead of the ring, even though he has fought other 147 pounders without doing.

The reason for floyd doing this.

Just because they are bigger...


I think I like you guys way of thinking now.


So i hope pacquiao and roach do to fight floyd at a catchweight even though they fought oscar at 147 pounds. just because floyd is bigger.

So when floyd does to bigger fighters i wont hear you complaining.

[Pullcounter]

If you feel this way even after Pacquiao has fought at WW.

Then I hope Floyd makes Cotto fight at a catchweight since cotto is bigger.
and make cotto think about making weight instead of fighting at the weight division that floyd himself has also fought in without never making people fight nobody at a catchweight.

he should make cotto have a day of the fight weigh in too, just too make sure he doesnt outweigh floyd by 15 pounds come fight time.

As a matter of fight floyd should do that for every fighter that is bigger than him.

He should try to win the fight on the scales instead of the ring, even though he has fought other 147 pounders without doing.

The reason for floyd doing this.

Just because they are bigger...


I think I like you guys way of thinking now.


So i hope pacquiao and roach do to fight floyd at a catchweight even though they fought oscar at 147 pounds. just because floyd is bigger.

So when floyd does to bigger fighters i wont hear you complaining.

but pac has only had 1 fight at 147 and no fights at 140. floyd has have more than several.

[Benny Leonard]

QUOTE=Pullcounter;4987000]for the money?

And what would the fight with Floyd be about?

MONEY

cause it wouldn't be fair for pac to go up to 154.

Missed the point. If it was Ok for Pac to move up to 147 for Oscar than it is OK for Pac to continue to fight at 147 for Floyd. You issue was with size but I pointed out that Oscar was bigger than Floyd and made Floyd come up to 154 for him. A weight that Oscar was accustomed to and healthy at and packed on 10+ pounds by fight-time while Floyd didn't gain weight and actually heard he lost weight by fight-time. The key for Floyd was just to make the 154 pound weight for the scales.

yeah, but you know that's not how boxing works

Missed the point again. Pac's fight-time weight is what is important. It shows that he is right around the same weight as Floyd by fight-time (when Floyd was active at WW). So, there is no need to drop down in weight if they would just rehydrate by fight-time.

The only reason anyone would want Floyd to come in at 140 or a "catch-weight" is to force him to think about it during training camp and diet down for the scales. So, he would be fighting both the scales and Manny. That's what Freddie mentioned.

If both fighters are coming in at 147-150 by fight-time anyway, why bother in lowering the weight to 140 just to make that weight for the scales?
That's the point.

I would say it is easier for an active fighter to make weight on the scales than it is for someone that is inactive as well as a fighter who hasn't had to make weight in some time. Last time Floyd fought at 140 was 2005.

definitely, that would make it fair since floyd is the bigger guy

Ah, at least you admit it along with Freddie. You would rather stab a person first before you actually meet him. I brought this up before Commodus:



That is why I have more respect for Fighters like Chris Byrd and other HWs that don't worry about weight issues.

How can you be happy with such a fight?

Whatever happened to Freddie's words of: Size doesn't win, Skills do

I'll give you activity, and that floyd has brittle hands...

but floyd isn't that much older, and floyd is always mentally focused

I think floyd will be able to haggle over gloves successfully.

I also think he should stay retired.

Floyd seems mentally focused but he isn't the same mentally and has said this himself. He worries about his kids now and has to be more cautious compared to his younger years. I think that was in the interview prior to Hatton.
Not the same young Floyd.
He also retired twice already and has said he is not into boxing anymore. Another sign of mental burn-out and could weigh on his mind if he comes back.

For Gloves: Freddie was with Oscar when Floyd had to wear "Reyes" gloves instead of "Winning." Freddie also made sure Floyd was only able to wrap his hands a certain way.

Floyd throws more punches when he can wear "Winning" Gloves. When he can't, his punch-out-put declines. He breaks his hands to much.

yeah, but you know that's not how boxing works

It doesn't make it right.

that must be why floyd doesn't want to fight his "tune up" fight on ppv because it would ruin his leverage in future fights.

He could only fight a big name on PPV. He is not Tyson.

A fight on HBO would also get his name back in the picture with more viewers which could in return boost the PPV view sales for his big fight.
If he really wanted to, he could set up a fight on ESPN or regular TV where even more viewers are.

But yes, bad PPV numbers would hurt him in negotiations. Right now he has his numbers for Oscar and Hatton.

i don't think arum will put either pac or cotto in with floyd. floyd's best bet is to fight mosley.

i'm pretty sure pac's team would ask margo to come in at a catchweight... that's why margo was under the WW limit against mosley.

Pac just mentioned he would fight Margarito. This was before Shane got to him.

Freddie was asked about the fight and Freddie made a joke having the fight at 143??? I think it was. Meaning: will make him kill himself to make weight so we can fight a dead man.

[Benny Leonard]

but pac has only had 1 fight at 147 and no fights at 140. floyd has have more than several.

You beat the man, not the weight.

What kind of honor do you have to want to shoot someone before they even fight?


How can you say you are better than someone if you are beating someone not at their best?
Hell, I don't even think Floyd was at his best by the time he got to Oscar, let alone now.

[Horus]

And what would the fight with Floyd be about?

MONEY



Missed the point. If it was Ok for Pac to move up to 147 for Oscar than it is OK for Pac to continue to fight at 147 for Floyd. You issue was with size but I pointed out that Oscar was bigger than Floyd and made Floyd come up to 154 for him. A weight that Oscar was accustomed to and healthy at and packed on 10+ pounds by fight-time while Floyd didn't gain weight and actually heard he lost weight by fight-time. The key for Floyd was just to make the 154 pound weight for the scales.



Missed the point again. Pac's fight-time weight is what is important. It shows that he is right around the same weight as Floyd by fight-time (when Floyd was active at WW). So, there is no need to drop down in weight if they would just rehydrate by fight-time.

The only reason anyone would want Floyd to come in at 140 or a "catch-weight" is to force him to think about it during training camp and diet down for the scales. So, he would be fighting both the scales and Manny. That's what Freddie mentioned.

If both fighters are coming in at 147-150 by fight-time anyway, why bother in lowering the weight to 140 just to make that weight for the scales?
That's the point.

I would say it is easier for an active fighter to make weight on the scales than it is for someone that is inactive as well as a fighter who hasn't had to make weight in some time. Last time Floyd fought at 140 was 2005.



Ah, at least you admit it along with Freddie. You would rather stab a person first before you actually meet him. I brought this up before Commodus:



That is why I have more respect for Fighters like Chris Byrd and other HWs that don't worry about weight issues.

How can you be happy with such a fight?

Whatever happened to Freddie's words of: Size doesn't win, Skills do



Floyd seems mentally focused but he isn't the same mentally and has said this himself. He worries about his kids now and has to be more cautious compared to his younger years. I think that was in the interview prior to Hatton.
Not the same young Floyd.
He also retired twice already and has said he is not into boxing anymore. Another sign of mental burn-out and could weigh on his mind if he comes back.

For Gloves: Freddie was with Oscar when Floyd had to wear "Reyes" gloves instead of "Winning." Freddie also made sure Floyd was only able to wrap his hands a certain way.

Floyd throws more punches when he can wear "Winning" Gloves. When he can't, his punch-out-put declines. He breaks his hands to much.



It doesn't make it right.




He could only fight a big name on PPV. He is not Tyson.

A fight on HBO would also get his name back in the picture with more viewers which could in return boost the PPV view sales for his big fight.
If he really wanted to, he could set up a fight on ESPN or regular TV where even more viewers are.

But yes, bad PPV numbers would hurt him in negotiations. Right now he has his numbers for Oscar and Hatton.







Pac just mentioned he would fight Margarito. This was before Shane got to him.

Freddie was asked about the fight and Freddie made a joke having the fihgt at 143??? I think it was. Meaning: will make him kill himself to make weight so we can fight a dead man.

Benny, you are right and people know it.

But they are trying to talk about fairness.
Well this is fairness:

If you dont think you can beat Floyd, dont fight him.


Thats why Nobody would race a Lexus vs. a Benz
Unless that benz gave a a Lexus headstart.
But if the benz gave that Lexus a headstart and the benz loss..

Can we say really say that That Lexus beat that benz in a fair race?


But if you think you have a Lexus that can beat a benz and you want race a benz.

Than let that Lexus race the Benz and see who wins.

and if that Lexus wins the race, then guess what, you just prove a lexus can beat a benz in a fair race.

What is greater winning a race because you got a headstart

or

winning a race where both of you guys are racing at the same point.



So IMO if Pacquiao wanna see if he can beat the best fighter of his generation.

Pacquaio should fight floyd at what ever weight Floyd is comfortable at and see if he wins. and then Pac can get full credit for the win and people cant say he beat a weight drain floyd.