MAYweather vs PACquaio: BATTLE FOR SUPREMACY !!!

[Horus]

Now, it aint floyd since he retired. Between Shane and Cotto, am leaning towards shane.

Oh, I though you was implying that floyd was never the lineal and undisputed champion of the ww division.

and still, since floyd has retired that title is Vacant.
Nobody is the Lineal and Undisputed Champion. It is vacant.

And if Floyd returns.. He will once again be the Lineal WW champion of the world. because he holds the chain of lineage with him.

And the only way to retain the lineal title without beating Floyd is to become Undisputed.

Floyd held the Lineal and Undisputed WW champion titles.

and when he comes back he will still be the true Lineal WW champion of the world just not the undisputed. He would have to earn the undisputed title back.

these are not opinions either. These are facts

[Benny Leonard]

1.Pbf fought heavier fighters before(Oscar at 154 limit a day before fight night).Why the sudden change.
2.You do believe size doesnt win boxing match skill does.
3.Pac isnt a legit welterweight just as floyd, 140 makes more sense than 147
4.We know who the true Universally accepted Lineal Welterweight champion is and it aint floyd.

1: not sure what you are talking about

2. what???

3. No it doesn't make sense because of the reasons I listed.
Quick answer: Floyd hasn't fought at 140 since '05.
147 makes more sense because, once again, both have fought there and you have a better chance of Two Healthy Fighters by Fight-Time. Two fighters that wouldn't have to think about both the weight and the fight.

Pac showed up to his lightweight fight by fight-time at 147 pounds. What division is 147 pounds? WW
And then he beat Oscar at WW.

4. That's because Floyd is retired now. It is the same reason how Pac got the "P4" spot. Either way, at the end of the day, it's about the Name that sell the fight.

[strugler]

1: not sure what you are talking about

2. what???

3. No it doesn't make sense because of the reasons I listed.
Quick answer: Floyd hasn't fought at 140 since '05.
147 makes more sense because, once again, both have fought there and you have a better chance of Two Healthy Fighters by Fight-Time. Two fighters that wouldn't have to think about both the weight and the fight.

Pac showed up to his lightweight fight by fight-time at 147 pounds. What division is 147 pounds? WW
And then he beat Oscar at WW.

4. That's because Floyd is retired now. It is the same reason how Pac got the "P4" spot. Either way, at the end of the day, it's about the Name that sell the fight.

Floyd fought much heavier opponents throughout his boxing career and here you are worrying about little PAC asking floyd to fight at 140.If you want same day weigh in to happen, change the rules dont make a special case for floyd in this fight.You are punishing PAC for Floyds inactivity and inability to make weight the day before.If floyd cant make it at 140 a catchweight is reasonable.imo.

Pac showed up to his lightweight fight by fight-time at 147 pounds. What division is 147 pounds? WW

This is a weak argument benny TBH this is bull****.

[Benny Leonard]

Floyd fought much heavier opponents throughout his boxing career and here you are worrying about little PAC asking floyd to fight at 140.If you want same day weigh in to happen, change the rules dont make a special case for floyd in this fight.You are punishing PAC for Floyds inactivity and inability to make weight the day before.If floyd cant make it at 140 a catchweight is reasonable.imo.

Pac showed up to his lightweight fight by fight-time at 147 pounds. What division is 147 pounds? WW

This is a weak argument benny TBH this is bull****.

Obviously you haven't been paying attention.

The PROBLEM with 140 is the possibility Floyd will be drained for the fight since he hasn't fought there since 2005. Add that to the inactivity and from what I thought I heard from Roger saying Floyd couldn't make 140 anymore (or just didn't want to have to diet down)...that means the fight will have to be at 147.

So, it is EASIER to just have the fight at 147 where BOTH FIGHTERS HAVE FOUGHT AND WON.

There is NO REASON TO HAVE THE FIGHT AT 140.

Pac isn't going to be fighting Paul Williams; he would be fighting Mayweather Jr.

I would rather have TWO HEALTHY FIGHTERS than the possibility of not having two healthy fighters.

A "Catch-weight" is actually changing the rules since we have divisions.


Why does 140 seem more reasonable for this fight?
It doesn't unless you want Floyd to have to think about the weight all through training camp; diet down and have the possibility that he comes in weight-drain and "flat" for the fight. That's what Freddie Roach wants and he basically said so when discussing a "catch-weight."



Think of it this way: Tell Pac to go back down to a weight he hasn't fought at in 4 years. And this is an active Pac. Get back to me on that one.

[strugler]

Obviously you haven't been paying attention.

The PROBLEM with 140 is the possibility Floyd will be drained for the fight since he hasn't fought there since 2005. Add that to the inactivity and from what I thought I heard from Roger saying Floyd couldn't make 140 anymore (or just didn't want to have to diet down)...that means the fight will have to be at 147.

So, it is EASIER to just have the fight at 147 where BOTH FIGHTERS HAVE FOUGHT AND WON.

There is NO REASON TO HAVE THE FIGHT AT 140.

Pac isn't going to be fighting Paul Williams; he would be fighting Mayweather Jr.

I would rather have TWO HEALTHY FIGHTERS than the possibility of not having two healthy fighters.

A "Catch-weight" is actually changing the rules since we have divisions.


Why does 140 seem more reasonable for this fight?
It doesn't unless you want Floyd to have to think about the weight all through training camp; diet down and have the possibility that he comes in weight-drain and "flat" for the fight. That's what Freddie Roach wants and he basically said so when discussing a "catch-weight."

I think Pac would be a disadvantage and not really healthy at 147 limit, favoring Mayweather more to cut it short. How sure are you Floyds not gonna rehydrate more than 150? If 140 is unfair for mayweather so be it , 147 is unfair for pac against mayweather. You want pac to adjust completely because of mayweathers retirement.

[Benny Leonard]

I think Pac would be a disadvantage and not really healthy at 147 limit, favoring Mayweather more to cut it short. How sure are you Floyds not gonna rehydrate more than 150? If 140 is unfair for mayweather so be it , 147 is unfair for pac against mayweather. You want pac to adjust completely because of mayweathers retirement.

"Not really healthy": how so?

He looked great against Oscar, did he not?

Talking about a disadvantage: Floyd has been off over a year, is in his 30's, has already retired which shows a mental decline (and could also indicate physical decline)...and hasn't fought at his best (in my opinion) since Gatti...maybe Baldomir at the most.
Pac on the other hand, has kept active and has continued to impress.

Pac also weighs over 150 pounds when he walks around and he still looks fit. What was the exact weight Freddie Said? 152{+} at 6% body-fat.

I'm not positive that Floyd would rehydrate more than 150 today. He was however said to have shown up at 149 for his WW bouts when active.

How wasn't it unfair for Diaz to fight Pac when Pac weighed in at 147 pounds by fight-time?

Wasn't Pac taking the chance that Oscar could have been healthy and been able to rehydrate by fight-time coming in at 157+
Or were you more on the lines of Freddie thinking that there was a greater possibility based on history that Oscar would kill himself to make weight and wouldn't be able to rehydrate properly for fight-time because of the dieting?

Freddie is the one who said "Size doesn't matter; skill does."

Just make the fight between two healthy fighters. Not that big of a deal.

Why try to steal the fight on the scales?

I'm sure Freddie will prevent Floyd from wrapping his hands a certain way, again, as well as making him wear "Reyes" gloves, again, instead of "Winning" gloves which allows him to protect his brittle hands (so he can throw punches).

Why wouldn't you want to beat a Fighter at his Best or at least give him a chance to be at his best instead of trying to take something away from him which in return, takes something away from your victory?

[strugler]

"Not really healthy": how so?

He looked great against Oscar, did he not?

Talking about a disadvantage: Floyd has been off over a year, is in his 30's, has already retired which shows a mental decline (and could also indicate physical decline)...and hasn't fought at his best (in my opinion) since Gatti...maybe Baldomir at the most.
Pac on the other hand, has kept active and has continued to impress.

Pac also weighs over 150 pounds when he walks around and he still looks fit. What was the exact weight again Freddie Said? 152{+} at 6% body-fat.

I'm not positive that Floyd would rehydrate more than 150 today. He was however said to have shown up 149 for his WW bouts when active.

How wasn't it unfair for Diaz to fight Pac when Pac weighed in at 147 pounds by fight-time?

Wasn't Pac taking the chance that Oscar could have been healthy and been able to rehydrate by fight-time coming in at 157+
Or were you more on the lines of Freddie thinking that there was a greater possibility based on history that Oscar would kill himself to make weight and wouldn't be able to rehydrate properly for fight-time because of the dieting?

Freddie is the one who said "Size doesn't matter; skill does."

Just make the fight between two healthy fighters. Not that big of a deal.

Why try to steal the fight on the scales?

I'm sure Freddie will prevent Floyd from wrapping his hands a certain way, again, as well as make him wear "Reyes" gloves instead of "Winning" gloves which allows him to protect his brittle hands (so he can throw punches).

I am one of those that thinks it was Oscars fault and his teams fault, youre making roach look like an evil genius.Oscars a professional so is his team(Dundee,Nacho etc).

Please dont tell me you dont just think Pac beating Diaz was all about the rehydration.Hes first fight at lightweight may i add. You want all the intangibles favoring floyd.Youre afraid of a former flyweight fighting at 140-144 a day before the fight.
You think fighters who weigh 147 at fight time are welterweights yet admit floyd can weigh more than 147 come fight time.
Its not OK if Welterweights to outweigh floyd but when Floyd outweighs pac its suddenly fine.

[Benny Leonard]

I am one of those that thinks it was Oscars fault and his teams fault, youre making roach look like an evil genius.Oscars a professional so is his team(Dundee,Nacho etc).

Please dont tell me you dont just think Pac beating Diaz was all about the rehydration.Hes first fight at lightweight may i add. You want all the intangibles favoring floyd.Youre afraid of a former flyweight fighting at 140-144 a day before the fight.
You think fighters who weigh 147 at fight time are welterweights yet admit floyd can weigh more than 147 come fight time.
Its not OK if Welterweights to outweigh floyd but when Floyd outweighs pac its suddenly fine.

It is Oscars fault because he thought he could drop down to 147 and be healthy in the way he went about things.

Freddie took the fight at 147 because he knew what could happen to Oscar based on what he saw from training Oscar as well as what history has shown us with fighters that tried to do the same with coming back down in weight after moving up (while at a certain age included).
It was long ago that Roy hurt himself or Tarver or Chris Byrd. And, before all of them, many others.
It doesn't take a "genius" but it does take a knowledgeable person that pays attention. The Bonus for Freddie was being able to train Oscar.
If it was to be at 154, I'm not sure Freddie takes the fight but he may have.

Oscar out-weighed Floyd and so did many others throughout Floyd's career.
Floyd can weigh more than 147 pounds but I do think if he had to, he could also come in at 147 on the dot by fight-time. That is, back when he was active. No telling now. If rules stipulated that a fighter must be at the weight of division by fight-time, Floyd could fight at 147 or just move up to 154. Even at 154, some of the fighters like Paul Williams, I doubt would be able to make that weight by fight-time.

Pac showed up at 147 for his 135 pound fight, but for Oscar, he came in at 149, maybe 150. I can't remember the exact weight but something like that. He weighed more than Oscar. He looked great, didn't he?

The only thing I would worry about is seeing a fighter not at his best because he had to worry about weight during training camp and dieted to much to make weight for the scales, thus, hurting him for the fight.

If Pac didn't need to rehydrate to 147 by fight-time against Diaz, he shouldn't have. I didn't think much of Diaz anyway as being the best lightweight (because he wasn't), but the weight-issue still stands.


Pac already fought Oscar at WW and looked great. Freddie also said weight doesn't win fights, skills do. So, the easy way to make this fight is to make it at whatever weight Floyd wants it at.

The only person that would be scared would be anyone that wouldn't want Floyd to be healthy for the fight time. Same reason why they wouldn't want Morales to be healthy or Oscar to be healthy.
I'm not a fan of that way of winning. That's Freddie's way.

I really don't think Pac cares what weight the fight would be at.

[strugler]

It is Oscars fault because he thought he could drop down to 147 and be healthy in the way he went about things.

Freddie took the fight at 147 because he knew what could happen to Oscar based on what he saw from training Oscar as well as what history has shown us with fighters that tried to do the same with coming back down in weight after moving up (while at a certain age included).
It was long ago that Roy hurt himself or Tarver or Chris Byrd. And, before all of them, many others.
It doesn't take a "genius" but it does take a knowledgeable person that pays attention. The Bonus for Freddie was being able to train Oscar.
If it was to be at 154, I'm not sure Freddie takes the fight but he may have.

Oscar out-weighed Floyd and so did many others throughout Floyd's career.
Floyd can weigh more than 147 pounds but I do think if he had to, he could also come in at 147 on the dot by fight-time. That is, back when he was active. No telling now. If rules stipulated that a fighter must be at the weight of division by fight-time, Floyd could fight at 147 or just move up to 154. Even at 154, some of the fighters like Paul Williams, I doubt would be able to make that weight by fight-time.

Pac showed up at 147 for his 135 pound fight, but for Oscar, he came in at 149, maybe 150. I can't remember the exact weight but something like that. He weighed more than Oscar. He looked great, didn't he?

The only thing I would worry about is seeing a fighter not at his best because he had to worry about weight during training camp and dieted to much to make weight for the scales, thus, hurting him for the fight.

If Pac didn't need to rehydrate to 147 by fight-time against Diaz, he shouldn't have. I didn't think much of Diaz anyway as being the best lightweight (because he wasn't), but the weight-issue still stands.

I guess all fighter weighing more than their opponent come fight time should be criticize as well right?

[Benny Leonard]

I guess all fighter weighing more than their opponent come fight time should be criticize as well right?

It should be discussed but since it is not a written rule that fighters have to show up at the actual weight of the division {147}, nothing will be done about it until we have more people bringing it up. It was brought up after the Gatti vs. Gamache fight. I think there was a lawsuit actually

I did discuss this topic a while back and there was a discussion on a possibility of a rule change for what should/would and shouldn't/wouldn't be allowed.

For example: a WW {147} fight should have two fighters weigh-in at 147 on the scales the day before the fight. The next day, about 1-3 hours before the fight, the fighter will have to get weighed again. If the fighter is over 147pounds (and this is what we discussed), it may be allowed to give some room, say two pounds, so that the fight could go on. However, every pound over those two pounds {149}, and the fight can be canceled. If the fight goes on (with the approval of the opponent), money deductions will be taken out for each pound over {either 147 or the two extra pounds), and given to the opponent (if that opponent himself isn't over the weight-limit and approves of going on).

If the fight is canceled, then their will be a suspension.