Calzaghe and Dawson in talks??

[Benny Leonard]

well my friend unless we get ufc style match makin in boxing there is always gunna be question marks aint they ....................... would tom beat harry in his prime ..... ect ect .................... its ****

I know; I wish things were different. If fighters fought more there would be a greater chance.

Kickboxing has lots of tournaments so you’re pitting the best with the best to get to the crown.

Pride was good at getting fighters together.

[Benny Leonard]

thats a great quote.

I thought so too

[Kris Silver]

But that's why I didn't like Hopkins. I gave him credit, like I do Joe for fighting the legit guys in their divisions and clearing them out, but I don't give them much credit at all as two division Champs.

I felt Hopkins beat a deflated Tarver who beat a deflated Roy Jones Jr; so it meant little. And Joe beat a 43 year old former middleweight who beat a deflated Tarver to capture the LH title.

You say you credit Lacy though over rated, was as a good fighter whom Calzaghe gets respect for beating. But you seem to judge guys in the LHW division way more harshly. Seems a little un balanced seeing as though regardless of anything, Tarver, Roy Jones were some of the best LHW's out there (Roy won the 1st fight) and Hopkins was the MAN at LHW whom thrashed Tarver. Dawson couldn't thrash Tarver like that at his age, and most would favour Hopkins over Dawson. So Dawson is not the man at LHW, Joe already beat the man there so he is a very legit 2 weight world champion and #1 at both.

Dawson is hyped as the future of the LHW division. For once I actually think Dawson is the future of the LHW division and is worthy of some of the hype he's getting. Suddenly everyones overrated at LHW now, when really any of the top 10 guys Calzaghe beats by majority opinion. And Dawson as good as I accept he is, is really the #3 LHW seeing as though most agree both Hopkins and Calzaghe beat him.

A lot of Americans seem to be reluctant to over hype another young champion coming through with Dawson, seeing as though even with Calzaghe; Lacy got exposed, and so did Pavlik recently. Since the latter I've noticed a lot less hype around Dawson, so I think people are finally realising even from his performance at least against RJJ, that he's the real deal and #1 and LHW whom would beat and ruin another young champions career in his prime.

I would quite like the fight to happen in Wales but I'm not sure Joe is genuinely down for fighting, he struggled getting motivated for fighting one legend in Hopkins, let along a small name in Dawson. Everyone inc; family and boxing people are telling him to retire.

[Benny Leonard]

You say you credit Lacy though over rated, was as a good fighter whom Calzaghe gets respect for beating. But you seem to judge guys in the LHW division way more harshly. Seems a little un balanced seeing as though regardless of anything, Tarver, Roy Jones were some of the best LHW's out there (Roy won the 1st fight) and Hopkins was the MAN at LHW whom thrashed Tarver. Dawson couldn't thrash Tarver like that at his age, and most would favour Hopkins over Dawson. So Dawson is not the man at LHW, Joe already beat the man there so he is a very legit 2 weight world champion and #1 at both.

Dawson is hyped as the future of the LHW division. For once I actually think Dawson is the future of the LHW division and is worthy of some of the hype he's getting. Suddenly everyones overrated at LHW now, when really any of the top 10 guys Calzaghe beats by majority opinion. And Dawson as good as I accept he is, is really the #3 LHW seeing as though most agree both Hopkins and Calzaghe beat him.

A lot of Americans seem to be reluctant to over hype another young champion coming through with Dawson, seeing as though even with Calzaghe; Lacy got exposed, and so did Pavlik recently. Since the latter I've noticed a lot less hype around Dawson, so I think people are finally realising even from his performance at least against RJJ, that he's the real deal and #1 and LHW whom would beat and ruin another young champions career in his prime.

I would quite like the fight to happen in Wales but I'm not sure Joe is genuinely down for fighting, he struggled getting motivated for fighting one legend in Hopkins, let along a small name in Dawson. Everyone inc; family and boxing people are telling him to retire.

Why Lacy was a better victory than Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr:

Lacy was young, undefeated, held a title, and was hyped up as the next best thing. Joe was going against the odds against all this and he overcame it showing the world how good he was whle exposing of Lacy in dominate fashion.


Hopkins was 43 and a former Middleweight who beat Tarver after Tarver lost weight, just like Jones, from over 200 pounds. So Hopkins victory over Tarver meant little to me since I saw it as the same dramatic effect on the body that happened to Roy Jones Jr. Maybe not quite as bad, but it was enough to clearly see this wasn't the same Tarver who battled it out with Glen Johnson. He seemed "Flat," just like he {Tarver} said he felt.

Although, I do consider Hopkins the harder fight if that makes sense. I think Hopkins would have beaten Lacy as well...but the story was better with Lacy because of the odds at the time and it bringing Joe into the spotlight.

Sometimes the body is able to recover somewhat with some time, but you'll never get it back.

Roy Jones Jr. was SHOT by the time Joe fought him so there is absolute no credit. He couldn't even defeat Jones like Glen Johnson did...or Tarver in the second match.

Joe beat the name "Roy Jones Jr." but he didn't beat
Roy "Superman" Jones Jr.

It's like Holmes trying to take credit for a victory over Ali.


The problem I have with Dawson is that he looked very good against Adamek and seemed to be on the right track, however; at that time he had Floyd Sr. at his side and he no longer has him. After he left Sr., I thought Chad wasn't as good; wasn't as prepared...which would explain his recent outings, which is why I now say he has become overrated: fans are still hyping him based on the "W" instead of looking at he fights carefully.


I wouldn't put Hopkins over Dawson. Hopkins beat ONE fighter at LH, and that was the deflated Antonio Tarver.

Dawson has a better win at LH than Hopkins...ADAMEK...although, like I said, that was years ago when I felt he was better...so maybe, Hopkins gets the nod in the 1 spot. But, I'm not sure since Hopkins lost to Calzaghe and lost to Taylor; two fighters that are not stiff and mechanical like Pavlik. Styles make fights and Dawson can press the attack better than Pavlik; he's more athletic. Hopkins still suffers from stamina problems even if he showed little problems against Pavlik...I just think Hopkins was able to dictate and break Pavlik down mentally in the fight so the fight was over physically.

Pavlike is also a Middleweight so how Hopkins can get credit for this more than a Middleweight battle is beyond me.

Joe will be considered a LH Champion, even if it is the Ring Belt.

However, can you really see him being discussed with the likes of Ezzard Charles, Billy Conn, Michael Moorer, Michael Spinks, Archie Moorer, Bob Foster, etc.?

[Kris Silver]

I think you overp lay and over anaylyse the weight thing too much. RJJ was a MW ok, but he managed to get a HW title, what's such a big deal about fighting at LHW again? He'd already clearly beaten LHW's before, so going on about MW stuff seems a major exaggeration, he quite naturally grew into that weight like many do over time.

As for Hopkins same goes, he took some time out, put a bit of weight on naturally, and hired a professional to ensure he was spot on and healthy and natural at the weight. He clearly is around that weight naturally now at this time in his career, and would be draining his body to get below 168 as is the same case for Dawson. So loosen up on the weight thing, I agree somewhat valid in some area's but not so much on the MW malarky for the reasons given. Also, Calzaghe suddenly from one fight to the next went up a divison to what he'd been at for a decade, that should help put it into context a little.

I actually though recently it's strange how people go on about RJJ being weight drained all the time being his sole reason for losing. Firstly, ok he was and it effected him massively, but it also wasn't the only reason. Tarver went down in weight about the same amount or more, just it was from a movie not a fight. No one talked about that and I agree it is a factor rarely recognised. However, I still think you over play the weight thing on both. They weren't completely done and were still competitive top LHW's after all is said and done. The difference between them, and as we've seen Hopkins and Calzaghe however, is quite large now looking back on it. But that's common, there's often 2/3 clear top guys, and it's clearly in order; Calzaghe, Hopkins and Dawson for me, by some margin.

[Benny Leonard]

I think you overp lay and over anaylyse the weight thing too much. RJJ was a MW ok, but he managed to get a HW title, what's such a big deal about fighting at LHW again? He'd already clearly beaten LHW's before, so going on about MW stuff seems a major exaggeration, he quite naturally grew into that weight like many do over time.

As for Hopkins same goes, he took some time out, put a bit of weight on naturally, and hired a professional to ensure he was spot on and healthy and natural at the weight. He clearly is around that weight naturally now at this time in his career, and would be draining his body to get below 168 as is the same case for Dawson. So loosen up on the weight thing, I agree somewhat valid in some area's but not so much on the MW malarky for the reasons given. Also, Calzaghe suddenly from one fight to the next went up a divison to what he'd been at for a decade, that should help put it into context a little.

I actually though recently it's strange how people go on about RJJ being weight drained all the time being his sole reason for losing. Firstly, ok he was and it effected him massively, but it also wasn't the only reason. Tarver went down in weight about the same amount or more, just it was from a movie not a fight. No one talked about that and I agree it is a factor rarely recognised. However, I still think you over play the weight thing on both. They weren't completely done and were still competitive top LHW's after all is said and done. The difference between them, and as we've seen Hopkins and Calzaghe however, is quite large now looking back on it. But that's common, there's often 2/3 clear top guys, and it's clearly in order; Calzaghe, Hopkins and Dawson for me, by some margin.

Yes, we can consider Roy a legit LH; I agree; but it should be noted that he had to put on weight to get there over time. His best weight probably was168. Others have moved up in weight as well, like Ezzard Charles and he is considered a legit, ATG, at LH.

Why we have to look at the weight loss from HW:

Muscle is different than Fat loss. In order to lose muscle, you are decreasing Protein, Carbs, Fats...Calories and you are training to lose the weight. It takes a careful planning of understanding how much time it should take, measuring out your diet, and training to lose the muscle weight accordingly without becoming unhealthy.

Everything you eat and the way you train effect your hormone levels; your body's equilibrium.

If you stress the body out by not eating right and overtraining, from what I know, your Cortisol levels go up, which will throw the body off and cause you to feel lethargic; your hormones/chemicals are off.

At 35+ hormones are already on the list to possibly decrease, so any little tampering is bad.

This is why athletes decline as they age; as well as all Men. Athletes push it ahead because of wear and tear on the body. Most men can keep their hormones high if healthy, but sometimes it doesn't matter and things just drop.

Three Names to look at: Roy Jones Jr; Antonio Tarver; and Chris Byrd.
All three did the same thing and look what happened to them. Not so good.

Did you happen to see Chris move back down to LH?

It's also why I think Hopkins did not go back down to 160 and got Pavlik to move up; he didn't want to wind up like the three of them.


I thought Roy looked like Casper the Ghost in the first Tarver fight and never looked the same.

Once you lose your LEGS; your Done.

I've talked to some people that have actually said to me that Roy, since he relies on his athletic ability, was on the decline after 30; although it was a slow decline. Your Athletic prime years tend to peak by 29 and after that it becomes harder to keep it at such a level. Not that it mattered a whole lot; Going from 100 down to 90 isn't so bad...but it did catch up.


Other notes: Tarver was healthy for Jones and Johnson, but not for Hopkins. Last time Jones was healthy was for Ruiz, but it can be argued that he was past his prime physically. Tarver wasn't "healthy" for Hopkins.

I think Hopkins could have made 168 for sure years ago; but I also thought Calzaghe could have moved up to 175 as well, years ago. Both used dieting as a method to keep in their divisions.

[Kris Silver]

Never questionned the effect of Roy from HW back down to LHW, I said as much here and in numerous threads, such as one recently where I said he should've gone to CW. Apparently he didn't consider it a real division, so it's his own fault I'm afraid. I have a magazine here with an interview with him a couple of months ago where he recognises and regrets going back down so soon and thinks his body is only right 3 years on, so now.

Christ Byrd, yup saw him at LHW and he looked very odd indeed, it was like he was on stilts, didn''t suite him at all either. Tarver people don't cite the weight thing so much, nor does he. But yes like I say, I agree. Great knowledge on the effects of it, but like I say, I never questionned it so much, just think your over played it a tad saying a win over Tarver/RJJ means nothing due to it, plus the whole previously MW thing.

Hopkins recently said he could get down to 168 or something, and seemed to perform a little better at 170 then at 175. Only 5 lbs difference I know but it's still nearly a division lower, is sigificant, he could do more as he he manages his body terrifically.

He's the epitamy of an athlete doing everthing right, working hard at it, being sensible and reaping the rewards of longevity. Credit to him, hes #2 LHW and #4 p4p, shows it can be done.

[Benny Leonard]

Never questionned the effect of Roy from HW back down to LHW, I said as much here and in numerous threads, such as one recently where I said he should've gone to CW. Apparently he didn't consider it a real division, so it's his own fault I'm afraid. I have a magazine here with an interview with him a couple of months ago where he recognises and regrets going back down so soon and thinks his body is only right 3 years on, so now.

Christ Byrd, yup saw him at LHW and he looked very odd indeed, it was like he was on stilts, didn''t suite him at all either. Tarver people don't cite the weight thing so much, nor does he. But yes like I say, I agree. Great knowledge on the effects of it, but like I say, I never questionned it so much, just think your over played it a tad saying a win over Tarver/RJJ means nothing due to it, plus the whole previously MW thing.

Hopkins recently said he could get down to 168 or something, and seemed to perform a little better at 170 then at 175. Only 5 lbs difference I know but it's still nearly a division lower, is sigificant, he could do more as he he manages his body terrifically.

He's the epitamy of an athlete doing everthing right, working hard at it, being sensible and reaping the rewards of longevity. Credit to him, hes #2 LHW and #4 p4p, shows it can be done.

Tarver was asked about the weight but he didn't want to admit it because then it would be admitting that Roy's "excuse" was legit. So Tarver just kept saying he was "Flat" which means the same thing without saying Jones Jr. was not healthy either. Tarver's legacy rest on his wins over Jones.

Good call on the "stilts" with Chris. It seemed very weird indeed. Like I said, I heard a while back that you should always check the athlete’s legs to see if they are young/healthy.

To me, there is a huge psychological effect when an athlete knows he is not the same physically; especially if they don't realize it until they are in the game being pressed. This is why Trainers tell their fighters to make sure they train and prepare mentally and physically so by the time you are in the game, you don't have to question yourself. This is also why I give a lot of respect to Ali. Ali after he came back was not the same Physically, but he was so strong mentally when it came to boxing that he overcame the odds. Of course this is quite the same as Roy, but hopefully you get the point. Age also can effect the mind; Roy was older than Ali.

It mattered with the weight drain with me for Jones vs. Tarver because Roy has always worked more with his Physical Gifts than Technical. Where Hopkins could get away with a decline in physical ability, Roy couldn't.

Roy looked like he stepped in weight cement and had been ****** of blood from a Vampire.



If we want to talk about a fighter moving up in weight and winning and solidifying his place in that division, maybe I am overrating it...but I like to point it out. It's better to talk about where the fighter appeared most comfortable: which weight did he not have to drain for and not have to bulk up to get to the next division. This is why I thought Roy at 168 was probably his best weight.



Hopkins might be able to get down to 168. It's been enough time to slowly work down, but I can't see him going back down to 160. Going from 175 down to 170 doesn't compare to going from 200 down to 175-185 depending which weight you take for Roy; weigh-in or by fight time...not sure how it works or if the draining of water weight effects the body even more in his case; maybe it does.

I like Hopkins's ability to stay in shape and treat his body right. Also the way he mentally prepares for a fight as well in life.

Too many fighers have gone off track and never have been able to get it back. Or have just thrown away their "gift."

Hopkins had to work hard to where he got so I think it was an advantage in a way as opposed to somebody that is a physical gift from nature that may fall into tempatation of thinking he doesn't have to train because he is a "God."

[elgaringo]

its obvious calzaghe doesn't need to fight any young up and comer cos there will always be one! and once too often, he'll get beat! father times just around the corner and everyones different so you dont get no warning when it will creep up on you!

BUT with that said I think he can get away with it this time cos it will add to his legacy and he has the beating of this no 2 light heavy. it'll be a good victory over an apponent who I think will dominate when calzaghes gone!!!

[sparked_85]

well good.

If this happens. Everyone on this forum will end up picking against Joe............again.