Who deserves more credit

[BattlingNelson]

Dawson isn't danger looming? Floyd has never even came close to losing a fight or been truly knocked down (Zab's was waived off) this is very easy FLOYD ten fold.

It could be argued that Dawson is danger looming yes, but the difference is thatJoe is past his prime. Floyd retired IN his prime.

[Wiley Hyena]

Hatton never was, and never will be in the same league with Prime Kostya Tszyu, Antonio Margarito, or Miguel Cotto. I'd be willing to give Floyd an early pass on skipping out on Tszyu when Floyd was Jr.WW because Tszyu was the monster of the division. But, not fighting either Marg or Cotto (especially Cotto) cinched it for me.

[Googler]

It is not about who he dodged, I don't believe he dodged anyone, it is about who they fought.

Bottom line, up until the Kessler fight Joe's best wins were over a past prime Eubank and an overrated Lacy.

Mayweather's wins over prime elites like Corrales and Castillo get more credit than Joe's over past prime versions of Jones and BHop IMO. Add to that the fact that Mayweather beat De la Hoya and a prime Hatton in addition to several other top fighters along the way and I think he deserves to be rated over Joe.

Are you talking about the over past prime version of B-HOP that took Kelly Pavlik to school?

[Googler]

Fact of the matter is that Floyd Mayweather is a fraud. He picks and chooses his opponents and when he thinks the opponent is dangerous hell just avoid them.

[Dan...]

Are you talking about the over past prime version of B-HOP that took Kelly Pavlik to school?

I actually don't think I mentioned Bernard Hopkins in that thread.

But yes, Hopkins was past prime when Joe fought him. I am not dis*****g that he is still an elite fighter and it was a great win for Joe, either his best or second best, but that version of Hopkins was still one that was significantly past his best IMO. Just because he schooled Pavlik does not change that. Look to his performances against Taylor and Wright - they show he was definately well and truly in decline.

[Wiley Hyena]

I actually don't think I mentioned Bernard Hopkins in that thread.

But yes, Hopkins was past prime when Joe fought him. I am not dis*****g that he is still an elite fighter and it was a great win for Joe, either his best or second best, but that version of Hopkins was still one that was significantly past his best IMO. Just because he schooled Pavlik does not change that. Look to his performances against Taylor and Wright - they show he was definately well and truly in decline.

I can accept excuses about RJJ, even though it is amazingly hypocritical for some to say that RJJ was going to destroy Calzaghe, and then after RJJ lost turn around and say he was just an old, shell of himself. But, making excuses about the Hopkins win is less convincing and sounds like sour g****s.

I'm sure that for some, if Calzaghe blew out Chad Dawson next we'll hear crap like: "Dawson was injured", or "Dawson had a short prime that ended right before he fought Calzaghe," or other creative b.s.

[JulioCesaChavez]

The British fanboys are probably sending out SPAM emails to get Calslappy some pity votes. Even so Mayweather is still miles ahead. Castillo, Corrales, Fatton and Oscar were not over the hill like Eubanks, Jones and all them other people who knocked him down!

[Benny Leonard]

Hatton never was, and never will be in the same league with Prime Kostya Tszyu, Antonio Margarito, or Miguel Cotto. I'd be willing to give Floyd an early pass on skipping out on Tszyu when Floyd was Jr.WW because Tszyu was the monster of the division. But, not fighting either Marg or Cotto (especially Cotto) cinched it for me.

I read there was a lot to it with Tszyu. Tszyu once said that he could get a fight anytime with Floyd and considered it after losing to Hatton if he were to come back...that tells me Floyd opened the door before Hatton made the offer. I'm not sure where the money was at the time or what was being offered. Hatton was able to come up with big money so Tszyu went to England.

People forget how incredible Tszyu was in his youth; shame he became so inactive and had outside problems that halted his progression.

I still say, if Tszyu had come to the States, he would have been better off in boxing terms...maybe not family life since Australia seems like a great fit for Kostya.

I watched a bunch of his fights a week ago, again; incredible back in the day.

You know you are good when Floyd has a lot of respect for you. Floyd even got emotional, even though he says he didn't see the fight and only clips with the Hatton vs. Tszyu fight; he bashed Hatton for his tactics.

I think Floyd may have felt the same way Judah did: Tszyu was past his prime, but still explosive/dangerous...but if fought right, he could be beaten.

Judah mentioned prior to his fight with Kostya that Tszyu isn't as good as he was and couldn't get it back. This was in response to Tszyu saying he had watched some of his amatuer and early pro career fights and was going to bring some of that back. Judah said Kostya hadn't fought like that in years and wouldn't be able to because of his age.

It didn't matter; Tszyu knocked him out. He still kept his power and timing.

[Dan...]

I can accept excuses about RJJ, even though it is amazingly hypocritical for some to say that RJJ was going to destroy Calzaghe, and then after RJJ lost turn around and say he was just an old, shell of himself. But, making excuses about the Hopkins win is less convincing and sounds like sour g****s.

I'm sure that for some, if Calzaghe blew out Chad Dawson next we'll hear crap like: "Dawson was injured", or "Dawson had a short prime that ended right before he fought Calzaghe," or other creative b.s.

I agree, that would be hypocritical. However I picked Joe to win the fight by a semi-wide UD, so I guess that does not apply to me.

Who is making excuses about the Hopkins win? I had Joe wining the fight and said it was a great win - perhaps second only to his win over a prime young champion in Mikkel Kessler. The fact is, Hopkins is not as good as he was when say he beat Tito - it is just a fact. It doesn't mean it isn't a great win, it is.

As far as your Dawson argument is concerned, you may be right. There will always be idiots out there looking to discredit fighters for any reason they can find. I'm sure if Calzaghe beat him we would hear the "overhyped, overrated, unproven" rubbish we usually do, but it certainly would not come from me. Dawson has proven himself as the number 1 fighter at 175 outside of Calzaghe over his last 4 or 5 fights in my view and has beaten 3 past champs and a top contender in Eric Harding. If Joe fought and beat him he would get a great deal of credit from me and most other reasonable boxing fans.

[Wiley Hyena]

I read there was a lot to it with Tszyu. Tszyu once said that he could get a fight anytime with Floyd and considered it after losing to Hatton if he were to come back...that tells me Floyd opened the door before Hatton made the offer. I'm not sure where the money was at the time or what was being offered. Hatton was able to come up with big money so Tszyu went to England.

People forget how incredible Tszyu was in his youth; shame he became so inactive and had outside problems that halted his progression.

I still say, if Tszyu had come to the States, he would have been better off in boxing terms...maybe not family life since Australia seems like a great fit for Kostya.

I watched a bunch of his fights a week ago, again; incredible back in the day.

You know you are good when Floyd has a lot of respect for you. Floyd even got emotional, even though he says he didn't see the fight and only clips with the Hatton vs. Tszyu fight; he bashed Hatton for his tactics.

I think Floyd may have felt the same way Judah did: Tszyu was past his prime, but still explosive/dangerous...but if fought right, he could be beaten.

Judah mentioned prior to his fight with Kostya that Tszyu isn't as good as he was and couldn't get it back. This was in response to Tszyu saying he had watched some of his amatuer and early pro career fights and was going to bring some of that back. Judah said Kostya hadn't fought like that in years and wouldn't be able to because of his age.

It didn't matter; Tszyu knocked him out. He still kept his power and timing.

Understand. But, I was talking about a period way back before the Hatton-Tszyu fight, when Tszyu was open to a fight with Floyd, but Floyd skipped by it.

But, you're right...Tszyu in his prime was a fantastic champion. It was absolutely criminal what happened to him in Britain against Hatton. I've never seen a ref placed so squarely in the pocket of a fighter. Hatton could have pulled out a club and used it in that fight.